Do not mention your CHL at work

The "What Works, What Doesn't," "Recommendations & Experiences"

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seamusTX
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#31

Post by seamusTX »

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER...
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: ...
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship....
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
Originally, churches and hospitals were completely off-limits. In 2005 (IIRC) the last clause was added.

- Jim

Captain
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#32

Post by Captain »

Oh, cool. I did misread.
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hi-power
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#33

Post by hi-power »

But you're still not allowed to carry in your church due to the written employee policy.

So now you're back to attempting to receive written permission from your employer granting you the ability to carry. Maybe you and your boss can get that after he/she receives his/her CHL? It may be worth a shot. (Get it? Shot? I crack myself up sometimes!)

pbandjelly

#34

Post by pbandjelly »

Captain wrote:Well, no, but from what I've read of the Texas laws, you can't carry in a church unless given express permission... did I read something wrong?
check out the rest of that statute. there's an exemption for Churches.

bburgi
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#35

Post by bburgi »

My boss (who happens to be my pastor as well, since I also work for a church) thinks it's awesome that I carry. We've been shooting a couple of times, but I've yet to convince him to get his own CHL.

He did make an awesome/funny comment the other day. He said, "I already have my CHL..." After seeing the puzzled look on my face, he continued... "It's called the bill of rights!"
Last edited by bburgi on Thu May 03, 2007 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Captain
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#36

Post by Captain »

Nice! I've kinda always thought that myself... (about the Bill of Rights). As for me, I work in the media department of a large church, and my boss (the Minister of Media) thinks getting a CHL is cool (obviously, he's getting his with me), but I doubt our corporate-like HR department would approve of carrying on the grounds.

It does bring up an interesting question though... When I'm not officially at work, and I'm just attending an event... does the corporate policy apply then?
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seamusTX
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#37

Post by seamusTX »

Captain wrote:When I'm not officially at work, and I'm just attending an event... does the corporate policy apply then?
It depends upon the exact wording of the policy. Some companies prohibit what you can do when you are on duty, regardless of the location. If you are not paid hourly, it become hazy when you're on duty.

- Jim

NcongruNt
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#38

Post by NcongruNt »

Captain wrote:Well, no, but from what I've read of the Texas laws, you can't carry in a church unless given express permission... did I read something wrong?
Yes.

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder inten-
tionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license is-
sued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if
the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or
service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as deter-
mined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section
104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or profes-
sional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241,
Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home li-
censed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the li-
cense holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home
administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder inten-
tionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental
entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the
license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is
concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under
Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer
commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security
officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor
facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the
public that is located in a county with a population of more than one
million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed
with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more
than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the
premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private
driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or
other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun
under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A
misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection
(b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third
degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the
actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the
handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenact-
ment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission.

NcongruNt
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#39

Post by NcongruNt »

Oops. :oops: I didn't realize that I wasn't reading the last page. Sorry for the unnecessary late reply.

NcongruNt
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Re: My .02

#40

Post by NcongruNt »

Captain wrote:As for the whole work situation... I already know I can't carry at work... not only is it in the HR employee policy... but I work at a church. So the only way I can carry is to get permission... which I won't get. Funny thing though, I'm taking the CHL class with my boss. What a weird world.
Your church has an HR department? :shock:

Your boss would be the one to ask and get permission from, I would think. How large of an organization is this?

KBCraig
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Re: My .02

#41

Post by KBCraig »

NcongruNt wrote:Your church has an HR department? :shock:
LOL, I had that same reaction. I belong to a "big" church, meaning in this city of @70k, we have weekly Sunday morning attendance of about 275. Paid employees are the pastor, the music minister, the youth minister, and a secretary. That seems sufficient to manage an organization and property worth several million dollars.

I'm of the bent that if a church has a HR department and professional managers, it's something other than a church.

Kevin

Captain
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#42

Post by Captain »

Well, we're still a church I assure you. We're just a little larger than most. We have 5 "satellite" campuses in addition to our main campus in Rockwall, employee over 200 people and have between 6,000 and 8,000 attendees every weekend (except Easter and Christmas when we average 20,000 for our services). I was scared to death of large churches (and rightly so, I'd either interned or worked part time at several), but Lake Pointe is different... It's not run like a business when it doesn't have to be... it really still tries to be a church. We partner with churches in several US cities and 10 or so foreign countries and are very involved in our community and the world at large...

I'm a the senior content creator and am responsible for the creation of all of our video, animations, and computer graphics for live services (I am responsible in the sense that the "buck stops here", but there are probably 5 people or so that actually work on the content creation).

Good news though... I am in the process of moving, and while packing my office (at home) I found my employee manual and thought I'd double check the firearms policy... and what I thought I remembered being there... wasn't! There's no firearms or weapons policy at my church! And after what you guys pointed out to me the yesterday, I checked for 30.06 signs as I left, and they're not there either. So thanks to you guys, I know I'm actually in the clear on this one!

pbandjelly

#43

Post by pbandjelly »

yadda yadda yadda, the point is you're an employee, and if their employee policy says you can't carry, regardless of if you're on the clock, or not.... well, you guessed it.
they can't arrest you, but they sure could fahr you.
if just depends on the wording in the HR handbook.

Captain
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#44

Post by Captain »

??? I'm not quite sure I get the point of your reply... someone asked about the size of my church and I gave the information... I also explained that I re-checked the company policy and nothing is mentioned about firearms... so not only is your post bordering on insulting, it's kind of pointless.
pbandjelly wrote:yadda yadda yadda, the point is you're an employee, and if their employee policy says you can't carry, regardless of if you're on the clock, or not.... well, you guessed it.
they can't arrest you, but they sure could fahr you.
if just depends on the wording in the HR handbook.

pbandjelly

#45

Post by pbandjelly »

Captain wrote:but I doubt our corporate-like HR department would approve of carrying on the grounds.
be offended by them, not me, who is trying to relay information. as such I work at an establishment that has "a corporate-like HR dept with a policy that I can't even have a heater IN MY CAR.
aaaaaaaaaaaand they can search me anytime.

ETA: I didn't see your other response when I added mine. be careful of terms like "unauthorized weapons" and things of that nature.
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