Church/Daycare facility

[Rotten]

So I think I already know the answer to this question but I'm going to ask it anyway. I understand why we are not supposed to carry in a school/daycare, not that I agree with it, but I understand the reasoning. So, I, by law am not allowed to carry in my church because it has a daycare facility located inside.

Does anyone have experience with this issue and has anyone addressed this with a lawyer or law enforcement? If so what was the outcome/opinion of that lawyer or law enforcement person?

I obviously wouldn't carry when the daycare is actual active. However, if I could I would carry on Sundays and Wednesday nights when I go to church.

[Teamless]

I don't believe daycare is off limits,unless it is run by a school.
Church you can carry at, unless they post 30.06 signage (properly)

[tornado]

You can find most public schools or private schools with a county search at those sites (be sure to check "include schools"). If it's not a school, it should be OK.

[treeman]

I certainly don't consider our church daycare the same as a school. If the church isn't posted 30.06 I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought to carry.

[Rotten]

“CHL-16 PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED
(a) (1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;”

CHL-16 PC 46.03 clearly states you cannot carry a concealed weapon in a school but does not define the term “school”. Then CHL-16 PC 46.11 says to go to the Health and Safety Code for the definition of a school.

“CHL-16 PC §46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMITTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOL ZONE.
(c) In this section, “institution of higher education,” “premises,” and “school” have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code.”

Here is that definition.

“Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code (5) "School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school or a day-care center, as defined by Section 42.002, Human Resources Code.”

So the definition here includes a day-care facility. Next CHL-16 46.11 has this statement as well.

“PC §46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMITTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOL ZONE.
(b) This section does not apply to an offense under Section 46.03(a)(1).”

However, “school” is not defined anyplace other than PC 46.11 in the document. This is the reason for my question. It confuses my simple mind.

[tornado]

“CHL-16 PC §46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMITTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOL ZONE.
(c) In this section, “institution of higher education,” “premises,” and “school” have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code.”

That's odd -- the Lege's Texas Constitution and Statutes website says

46.11
(c) In this section:
(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code.
(2) "School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.

Looks like the CHL-16 may have missed an update. In a conflict, I'd go with the website. And that's the only place I see "school" defined in Chapter 46.

Waiting for an instructor or some such to weigh in...

[Keith B]

PC §46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMITTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOL ZONE.

This definition only applies to this statute, 46.11 and if you read that section it specifically says (b) This section does not apply to an offense under Section 46.03(a)(1) which is the statute for CHL carrying related to schools.

SO, that definition does not apply to us. A daycare is not off limits.

[Rotten]

Thanks Tornado. It appears CHL-16 might have missed an update. Thanks for the link, I have read some info on that sight for new laws under review by the Texas congress and didn't even thank to look at the Penal Code there.

Keith, I had read that part but because it was the only definition I could find as to what they meant by school I had to be on the safe side and assume the definition was valid any time they mentioned school.

Good stuff guys. Again, thanks for the help.

[Ericstac]

Whew, y'all had me worried. I've been carrying at my sons church/ daycare all along after searching for their certs. Good to see I'm still in my right.

[tornado]

Thanks, Keith.

[jjjtadpole]

You are not allowed to carry in you r son's church/daycare because of the following Texas Penal Code which also defines a handgun as a weapon....

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

and because...

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

So.. you have one section of the Texas Penal Code that limits where you can bring weapons and another section that further limits where you can bring concealed handguns (a type of weapon).

[tornado]

By reading all the way down the page. see the red below. For plain reading, it shouldn't have been done this way, but for other reasons it was.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.
(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.

And welcome to the forum.

[JCole]

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

How is the church/daycare facility exempt from this?

Because:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

edit: tornado beat me to it...

[jjjtadpole]

I modified my statement after searching the Texas Penal Code a little more after your post. It doesn't seem like they should have to give notice.

[Keith B]

I modified my statement after searching the Texas Penal Code a little more after your post. It doesn't seem like they should have to give notice.

They churches, hospitals and amusment parks DO have to give notice per 30.06 due to section (i) of 46.035.