Newbie ammo questions

[JES1964]

I am brand new to the gun culture - jumped in with both feet after I escaped a home invasion unscathed in January only by running from my home - and am completely lost about ammo types. I have ammo for home protection, but want some for range practice. Even the range, The Arms Room, League City, Texas, was completely out when I went to practice this past Saturday night.

I have a Glock 22, 40 caliber upon the recommendation of my brother, Louisiana law enforcement, and the local police officers who responded to my home invasion.

All I know is "I have a 40 caliber weapon and need practice ammo" - my brother's instructions! If I'm ever able to actually arrive at a store or website when they have ammunition, I have no idea what all the different designations mean. S&W 40? 180 gr? 165 gr? FMJ?? Does brand make a difference? How do I tell ammo that's good for practice from home protection ammo - in the box and from looking at the shell?

I also have concerns about penetration with the home protection ammo I do have. I live in a historic home that is very close to my neighbor's house. If I'm ever called upon to protect myself there, I constantly practice in my head the need to shoot N-S and not E-W, which would be toward my neighbor's home, if that is possible! Would a bullet actually go through the 100+ year old shiplap siding on both our houses? How do I find out this kind of information?

Can someone give me a basic primer on ammunition or direct me to somewhere I can learn this stuff!

Thank you so much!!

[blackgold]

I'm sure people will post with specifics, but yes, you would need .40 smith and wesson. As far as the practice ammo, whatever is cheaper AND you can find. I usually pick up 100 rnd white boxes of winchester 165 grn. The personal defense stuff USUALLY comes in smaller boxes of 20-25 and are 20-40 so they are considerably more. FMJ stands for full metal jacket you'll also see jhp for jacketed hollow point.
Brian

[johncanfield]

Welcome to the forum .

Good for you for buying a handgun, Glock is a good choice and .40 cal is also a good choice of calibers.

Not sure if a hollow point would penetrate siding, I suspect so though. If you are concerned about penetration, then take a look at frangible ammo - it is specifically designed to not poke through walls.

Yeah, ammo is a little confusing. Your .40 caliber handgun was designed to fire Smith & Wesson designed .40 cal ammo. There could be similarly sized bullets (the .40 cal means the bullet is 0.40 inches in diameter) but designed by another firearms manufacturer with a different casing (the casing is where the powder is housed.) I'm sure others will chime in with a better tutorial.

Target ammo is sometimes referred to FMJ (full metal jacket) or vice-versa. Some call it "Winchester white box" (or WWB) ammo because that's how one manufacturer packages their target ammo. There's nothing wrong with using hollow points for target practice, but it gets a little expensive.

As far as bullet weight, pick out your defensive ammo with whatever weight you want (I'd go with a heavier weight) and then try to shoot target ammo with the same weight bullet. I mix and match, so it's really not that big of a deal.

[RPBrown]

FMJ is full metal jacket. This is what is typically used as "practice ammo" because it is less expensive than defensive rounds
JHP is a jacketed hollow point. This is what most people use for defensive/home protection rounds.
Typically you would purchase JHP in 20 rounds to a box and FMJ would come 50 rounds to a box (although larger quantaties are available)
165 vs 180 grain This is a personal preference. I always go bigger but thats just me
If you own a Glock, they don't like lead ball type ammo (lead cast with no jacket) as it fowls the barrel. At least the early version owners manuals said not to use them. Not sure about newer Glocks as I haven't owned one for several years now.
As for wall penetration, that is a tough call. There can be wall penetration on virtually any type of wall, brick, siding, wood, etc. The best I can tell you is that in the case it hits the fan, you most likely will not be worrying about wall penetration. However, furniture placement, and a well rounded defense plan with different scenario (s) could aid in shooting the "right direction". My family has a plan for several scenarios depending where someone would break in (windows, doors, etc.) each of these plans hypothetically will lead the bad guy into a line of fire of our choosing, not his. We practice this as well as escape measures on a monthly basis (was done weekly until we became familiar with them.

[Salty1]

First of all welcome....... I cannot recommend strongly enough that you should take a handgun course, you do not want to learn shooting from a gun forum, bad habits are hard to break so it is best to learn the right way from the beginning. Range time without proper instruction amounts to turning money into noise, first and formost you need the proper grip and stance, the gun makes no difference, unless you have the basics down under a non-stressful range session one cannot expect to be proficient when a real stressful situation presents itself. If you are in the DFW area I highly recommed Handgun 101 at Denton County Sports, you will learn everything about handguns including all about ammunition. If you are not close to them ask around for an experienced instructor who has NRA Certifications and access to their own range. Best wishes on your quest, it will prove to be enjoyable...... well if you can locate ammo.....

[Teamless]

JES1964, it may be good if you can post where you live at, and maybe someone in your area would be willing to also give you some handgun instruction as well.
Like if you are in South Houston, I would be willing to take you to PSC and help.

[baldeagle]

After reading the responses (all of which were fine), I wonder if a "newbie" would understand some of it.

Here's some basics: a cartridge, which is what you load in a weapon, is made up of four parts; the casing or shell (usually brass, sometimes steel), the primer (the little round thing in the center that the firearm's hammer hits to ignite the powder), the powder (the explosive charge used to propel the bullet) and the bullet (the actual projectile that leaves the barrel of the weapon). When you fire a weapon, the bullet travels through the barrel and exits, the primer and powder are expended and the casing or shell is either ejected (in the case of semi-automatics like your Glock) or retained (revolvers) and must be removed in order to reload.

165gr, 180gr refers to the weight of the bullet. In general (but there are many exceptions) the heavier the bullet the larger the wound and the more damage that is done. (But much has been done in the area of bullet design to negate those advantages.)

FMJ refers to Full Metal Jacket. It's one type of bullet. There are many. Boat Tail, Wadcutter, Semi-Wadcutter, Frangible, etc., etc. Google them for a description of the purpose of each.

For self defense HP (Hollow Point) or JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point) bullets are recommended. Those bullets are designed to expand on impact and not exit the body. For particularly sensitive situations, frangible bullets may be used, but they are not generally recommended for self defense due to their poor pentration and they have been known to go through walls as well.

The real question you have to answer is what happens to the bullet if I miss? In real world testing at the Box O' Truth (linked later) 9mm hollow points penetrated 8 3/4 inch pine boards. .45 hollow points penetrated 7 3/4 pine boards. All of them went entirely through 12 pieces of 5/8 inch sheet rock (the equivalent of six walls).

An odd thing about hollow points is that although they are designed to expand on impact with flesh, when they hit other materials they may not expand at all but instead will fill up with material from the substance they struck.

Keep in mind that bullets behave in funny ways. Oblique angles can cause them to go in all sorts of weird directions, and each thing they hit reduces their energy until they are entirely spent. Without testing it's impossible to say if they would make it all the way through your house and into the neighbor's house with enough energy left to hurt someone. The bottom line is hit what you're aiming at.

For the performance of bullets (how far they will penetrate, how much they expand, etc., etc.) there is much information on the web. One particularly useful site is The Box O' Truth. They have an entire section on penetration testing. Two other sites that are particularly useful are The Truth About Guns and Ballistics By The Inch. The former has good information about guns in general. The latter has scientific analysis of real world bullet performance (muzzle speed or velocity as it relates to barrel length) using commonly available ammunition.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.

[TexasGal]

Welcome to the forum!

FMJ (full metal jacket) ammo is typically used just for target practice. It is cheaper. You don't want to use that for self protection because it also can shoot through and endanger others beyond your target.

JHP (jacketed hollow point) ammo is used for self defense because the bullet is designed to open up and stop inside tissue. This serves the purpose of causing enough shock and damage to stop the bad guy and it also serves to stop the bullet there so it does not go through.

JHP is much more expensive than FMJ so people do not typically practice with JHP except to make sure the one they have chosen for self defense does fire reliably from their gun (very important to know this obviously) and to make sure any difference in recoil and targeting become familiar.

I personally avoid any ammo that uses a steel case rather than a brass case because I had more than one gunsmith tell me the steel case ammo is hard on your gun. Besides, the brass case can be re-loaded by someone who does that. If your brother does, he might appreciate you keeping all that once-fired brass to give him

You will find endless articles arguing the merits of different weights and velocities. That matters, but it is a point of argument. The main thing is to learn the safety practices of handling ammo and your gun and training to shoot accurately. Where your round goes is vital and you must train so that you are proficient in placing your shots accurately. A basic handgun course is important with an instructor who can start you off with a proper grip, stance, and understanding of handgun safety. From there, your practice will help you attain skill. If you practice without that guidance, you may magnify incorrect habits that keep you from your goal of effective self protection so it is well worth it.

As for penetration, here is a good article:
http://www.handgunclub.com/hca/2005/11/ ... e-defense/

[The_Busy_Mom]

I cannot stress enough how important it is to take a beginning handgun class. A beginning class would be able to answer just about every question you have posted here. I applaud your commitment to protect your family and yourself. Please take an intro class - they are well worth the time and investment.

Welcome to the forum!!

TBM

[Acer]

I cannot stress enough how important it is to take a beginning handgun class.... Please take an intro class - they are well worth the time and investment.



TBM

And just in case you hadn't heard it enough-- Please spend the money and take a handgun class from a professional instructor.

You've purchased a tool that might save your life or the life of someone you care about, and anyone on this forum will agree that's a good decision. But, it's absolutely critical that you know how to use it effectively, maintain it, and deal with any common problems that might come up. It's literally foolish not to.

[JES1964]

Thanks for all the replies! I've got hollow points for actual protection, but quickly realized what you guys said - they are too expensive for practice.

Definitely going to take a class soon, but can't even find ammo to do that right now! I've taken my CHL class and spent time with my brother, who taught me basics the day I bought the gun. I'm also part of the Galveston Citizen's Police Academy and will go to the range with them next week.

I live in Galveston - The Arms Room in League City is where I plan to practice, but they don't have 40 caliber ammo.

That's the first hurdle to actually getting to practice! Any tips on getting my hands on some?

[baldeagle]

Try http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/40sw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TexasGal]

This is a huge issue right now for most of us. Find out when your local walmart and other sources get their trucks in and go early in the morning. I have heard the line at the door when Academy opens can be impressive. It is a crap shoot whether any ammo will actually come in on the truck so it can be frustrating. Another thing is to call around the smaller mom and pop stores asking. The .40 can be a little easier to find.

Do not be tempted to accept reloaded ammo from anyone or buy ammo at a gun show that is not clearly new in a box and correct for that box (head stamps match, etc). Reloading can be done safely, and many do, but you are staking your safety on it. Overcharged ammo can cause catastrophic failure of a gun. Unless you personally know that person and the degree of their knowledge and safe practices, I would not go there.

Your instructor can teach you how to safely use dry fire practice at home with snap caps as a big part of practicing your grip, stance, drawing, sight picture, and trigger control. Dry fire does not use ammo and is a valuable means of practice that instills muscle memory and avoids developing a flinch reaction to recoil. Practice smart. A hundred rounds of just punching paper is not as productive as 50 rounds with attention to each detail you are practicing and preceding it with regular dry fire practice you can do at home.

Glad to hear you are getting some professional guidance. Welcome to the world of those who have learned we are all on our own until help arrives. Now if we can just get a few million anti's to get it.

[glbedd53]

Handgun class, practice, and gun safety, and what about kids in your house?

[BigGuy]

Lots of advice and information here and from what I can tell, good advice and information. I've got nothing to add as far as ammo goes, but would like to share a few thoughts about responding to a home invasion. I say thoughts because I have no particular qualifications to back up my reasoning. I'm sure that if I go too far astray here more knowledgable members will weigh in.
It seems to me that an encounter in the home gives us some opportunities to control factors that we could not control in another location. I'm happy to see that you've already given thought as to where a bullet may go after exiting or missing the bad guy. In my book you're already showing a remarkable amount of thought and responsibility for a "newbie." Here are some other things you might consider.
Where are the most likely entry points for an intruder. Is there a way you can channel such a person to a location you prefer with locked interior doors or other barriers?
How will the lighting impact confrontation with an intruder. Again, if you have entry points that are more likely than others, place a light that will shine on the intruder while leaving you in the dark. I have one at the top of my stairs shining down the stairwell while leaving the landing in the dark. If they come that way, they'll be blinded while I can see them plainly. If I decide to go down the stairs, I can turn the light off before I pass it.
If you have a likely confrontation location with something behind it such as a bedroom, can you help beef up barriers with a linen cabinet or other heavy furniture? I'm not suggesting that you push a dresser in place then start blasting away in the direction of your children's bed room. But preparation before the confrontation might increase your safe shooting areas and directions.
Lastly I bought a security system with 4 cameras that I can access in my phone, tablet, or computer. The phone is always on a charger right next to my pistols on the night stand next to my bed at night. It was only $450. That feels like a heck of a bargain when something goes bump in the night and I can check key parts of the house right from my bed.