IDPA Sunday

[age_ranger]

If you were shooting out at Elm Fork Saturday and got DQ'd, you were shooting very well. (not sure if you're the same person or not) Any IDPA match you can learn from is a good one. It's a great reminder of safety techniques we need to use during defensive situations and even sporting events. Personally, I've learned alot from it but have to admit that I find the clearing procedure after shooting a bit unsafe for real world application (clear, slide, trigger....holster)

[BrassMonkey]

Yeah, that was me and thanks :-D Who were you?

I learned that apparently the preferences of the organizer supercede the rule book. Again, lesson learned...

The clearing procedure is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

1. You do not pull the trigger unless you want it to go boom

2. I am not real thrilled about potentially damaging internal components of an expensive gun

3. You do not pull the trigger unless you want it to go boom

4. Once clear is demonstrated properly, the rest is hogwash. You could close slide, hammer and holster standing on your head drinking yoru coffee thru your nose and be completely safe after demonstrating clear to 2 different individuals who are supposedly certified to be the safety officers in a competition shooting range

5. Did I mention, "You do not pull the trigger unless you want it to go boom"?

[HighVelocity]

Yeah, that was me and thanks :-D Who were you?

I learned that apparently the preferences of the organizer supercede the rule book. Again, lesson learned...

The clearing procedure is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

1. You do not pull the trigger unless you want it to go boom

2. I am not real thrilled about potentially damaging internal components of an expensive gun

3. You do not pull the trigger unless you want it to go boom

4. Once clear is demonstrated properly, the rest is hogwash. You could close slide, hammer and holster standing on your head drinking yoru coffee thru your nose and be completely safe after demonstrating clear to 2 different individuals who are supposedly certified to be the safety officers in a competition shooting range

5. Did I mention, "You do not pull the trigger unless you want it to go boom"?

I will tell you right now, with confidence, that attitude towards the rules will be your undoing in IDPA. Thousands of people have followed that clearing procedure for quite some time and it is accepted and probably won't ever change.
If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. It's that simple and it IS, just a game afterall. If you're concerned about damaging your gun, use a different gun or don't play the game. Again, the logic is simple.

[SRVA]

+++++1. Thanks HV

[TxD]

[quote="BrassMonkey"]

The clearing procedure is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
1. You do not pull the trigger unless you want it to go boom
2. I am not real thrilled about potentially damaging internal components of an expensive gun
[/quote]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BM,
This clearing procedure all started with Cooper in the leatherslap matches in the 70"s.

It is the norm at all cold ranges where matches are held for IDPA,
and all matches conducted by USPSA, IPSC (all countries), The Steel Challenge, The Bianchi Cup, Second Chance, and The Single Stack Challenge.

I have attended all these matches and watched the hammers fall on some
3000- 5000 dollar guns without a peep from the shooters.

I admit that I don't know about "Bullseye Matches" as I don't compete
in matches where you come to the line with your gun in a bag.

Just a little something for you to think about before you try to school those boys at Elm Fork.

[age_ranger]

I was the guy in the white Beretta hat keeping score. I've been shooting there for about a year and think they're a great bunch of people and run great matches. I dry fire my Beretta PX4 more than I shoot it loaded up and have never had an issue. Never used snap caps either. Those high dollar guns should be able to handle it with no problems. Especially that nice Kimber

The rules are in place for a reason. Obviously, they get followed by the letter by everyone which ensures not only your safety, but the safety of those around you. If I recall your DQ was not for improper clear procedures. They do try to be fair but their rules are set in stone. Unfortunately, you either abide by them or become a spectator. Hope to see you out there again. You were shooting pretty well..............

[NcongruNt]

I've been looking into IDPA for a few weeks, and was looking into matches nearby.

Being the good researcher that I am, I went and grabbed the rulebook and read through it... and found that my pistol doesn't quite qualify. 9x18 is not quite big enough a caliber to shoot in IDPA. Besides, shooting 95gr bullets at 1050fps doesn't meet the power requirements anyway. The barrel on the FEG PA-63 barrel is also 0.1" too long for the BUG competitions. No worries though, I'll be purchasing a new Hi-Power come the 1st of May, and that should qualify. I'm a little confused on the classifications, though. My Hi-Power will be an Argentine FM90 (based on the MkII), which works in SA like a 1911. When reading the requirements for Stock Service Pistol, it specifies Double Action, Double Action Only, or something called Safe Action. What is Safe Action? I'm guessing this means that I will have to compete in Enhanced Service Pistol instead. Is this right? This makes me a little more apprehensive, as I'll be competing against all the fancy 1911 guys, using a stock Hi-Power, with 5 months of shooting experience under my belt. I've never been in any kind of shooting competition, and am already prepared to join the "you suck" category - I think I may create a "you suck even worse" category while I'm at it.

Also, I looked for the procedure of showing clear in the rulebook and didn't see anything specifying actions, other than simply "showing clear". What was the procedure required in this instance that y'all are discussing, and where does dry-firing come into the equation?

[NcongruNt]

And to answer my own question, I found an explanation here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~murph864/idpa/tridpa.html

Unload and Show Clear

This first exercise is called "Unload and show clear". At the end of a stage, or if some problem develops, the RO will want you to empty your gun. This is how you do it.

Keep the muzzle pointed down range. When the RO says "unload and show clear". Eject the magazine and pocket it. Pull the slide back and allow the loaded round to fall to the ground. Allow the RO to see into the chamber. (He'll look over your shoulder) When he tells you to, release the slide, aim the pistol at a safe backstop, and press the trigger. He will then tell you to holster the arm. This is a stressful time for RO's so be sure to do it slowly, and on command.

Some people like to catch the loaded round instead of allowing it to hit the ground. Many RO's do not like this as some accidents involving lost fingers and such have occured. It is best to let the cartridge to fall to the ground. I segregate that cartridge from my match ammo and it gets fired in a practice session.

There's only one problem: the Hi-Power has a magazine disconnect, and it's not possible to dry fire with the magazine removed. Surely this has come up. What does one do in this case?

[SRVA]

NcongruNt,
The Hi-power and clones compete in ESP division for IDPA. This division is comperable to CDP for the 9mm/40 S&W guns. I have shot a Hi-power in competiton and the magazine safety really isn't a problem. If you carry an empty magazine with you you can insert it after the "slide down" command and drop the hammer. Then take the empty magazine out before you holster. This procedure is used on any gun with a magazine safety and it works just fine.

Regarding the "Hammer Down" command and having to drop the hammer on an empty chamber, the same process is used in IDPA, USPSA and IPSC. It is my final insurance as an SO that the gun is clear. Like TxD, I have seen it done, and done it on some very high dollar guns without any complaint from the competitor.

[hi-power]

I'm guessing this means that I will have to compete in Enhanced Service Pistol instead. Is this right?

Yep, ESP. A MKIII is the only gun I own and starting IDPA with it was a little rough, but after about 3-4 matches, I'm very happy with it. I stuck some hi-viz sights on it so I can actually SEE how I'm aiming now.

The only pain in the keister is when you show clear. Since you can't disconnect the mag-safety and still have a IDPA-legal pistol, you'll end up either dumping all the live rounds from your current mag into a pocket or root around on the ground to find your empty mag to stick in so you can pull the trigger.

At the end of my first match, I seriously considered using a new gun because of this, but one of the regulars said I should keep using it. I was worried about the little bit of extra time fumbling for an empty mag, but no one cared.

[NcongruNt]

NcongruNt,
The Hi-power and clones compete in ESP division for IDPA. This division is comperable to CDP for the 9mm/40 S&W guns. I have shot a Hi-power in competiton and the magazine safety really isn't a problem. If you carry an empty magazine with you you can insert it after the "slide down" command and drop the hammer. Then take the empty magazine out before you holster. This procedure is used on any gun with a magazine safety and it works just fine.

Regarding the "Hammer Down" command and having to drop the hammer on an empty chamber, the same process is used in IDPA, USPSA and IPSC. It is my final insurance as an SO that the gun is clear. Like TxD, I have seen it done, and done it on some very high dollar guns without any complaint from the competitor.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm going to be ordering several magazines for the Hi-Power, so I'd like to know what would be a good number (not just the recommended 3 that I've read) to have. As I'll need to carry an empty mag for the clearinig procedure, how many additional mags would be a practical number to have on hand? As for the dry firing, I'm confident that the Hi-Power will be just fine. :)

[jbirds1210]

What is Safe Action?

This is in reference to the Glock Safe Action pistol.

[SRVA]

If you have a total of 6 magazines you will be in great shape. One in the gun, two in the mag pouch, two full ones in your pocket in case you are at PSC where you shoot two scenarios back-to-back, and one empty.

[Jeremae]

Most of us CDP shooters who use a 1911 carry a Barney mag (in honor of Barney Fife) that we load into gun first, cycle round into gun, set safety on, remove barney mag and pocket it and load a full magazine to meet division capacity rule (for CDP either 7 in mag and 1 in chamber or 8 in mag and 1 in chamber depending on if you are using 7 or 8 round magazines) All my Active magazines are Wilson 47Ds which are shiny and my barney mag is a blued mecgar to make sure I don't mix them up.

I saw a Hi-Power shooter who had painted the follower, end and baseplate of a magazine bright red that he used as his empty mag to drop hammer on. I would suggest you keep your empty HammerDrop mag in a particular pocket that ONLY that mag is put in to avoid mixup.

As Steve says 6 mags is a good start, and only 5 of them have to be functional as the empty mag is only for dropping the hammer.

My goal is enough magazines to shoot the whole match without reloading (I figure 16 ought to be enough for most matches). I only need 2 more to be able to shoot Classifier without reloading.

BrassMonkey: It may help you mentally if when you are dropping the hammer, to aim at a target as if you are shooting it. This will be consistant with the 4 rules and only pulling trigger when AIMED at active target.

As for everything after you showing a clear chamber to the SO being Hogwash, I personally saw an Experienced shooter show clear to an Experienced SO and when he dropped the hammer, the gun went Bang. If ALL the steps are followed, it is impossible for a gun to be holstered and taken from the firing line that can fire (the goal on a Cold range)

[XoZe]

I am also a first time shooter and am going to ELM Fork this Wednesday to the DAPS IDPA. Is there anything I need to know? I am shooting either a GLOCK 17(9X19), or a Kimber Ultra CDP (.45). Is FMJ allowed there, or do I need hollow point? Is ammo sold there? Any other recommendations?