Chip in CHL Wisdom, lets create a template for school carry

[Will938]

I've wanted to do this for so long, and this finally got me on my feet. I'm going to send an email to the chief of police at my university, as they are the ones who must give permission to carry. I don't expect to have much of a chance, but I'd like to shatter any reason they might have before (or after) they get a chance to say it.

Without sounding like I'm on a rant and going on forever, what information should be included. We should perfect a template for every student to use at their school.

[stevie_d_64]

You might want to coordinate your effort with these folks...

http://concealedcampus.org/

This has come up recently, and it looks like they would welcome input...

Have fun!

[srothstein]

I am not sure if I would first try to address the police or go directly to the school administration (president or chancellor or equivalent). The police do not get to set the policy, and if the administration says the school will allow CHL's to carry, the police will obey.

Of course, the police chief will be asked to chime in when the administrator asks about this, so you might want to go to him first anyway. Kind of a mixed bet either way.

[KBCraig]

Steve, most of the school policies I've seen say firearms are prohibited without the approval of the chief of police (or security). That's usually the designated approval authority, so it's appropriate to make the initial request to that office.

Kevin

[stevie_d_64]

Considering the atmosphere at today's campuses, I'm with Stephan when it comes to this being a mixed situation...

I would venture a guess that these university types are already geared up for this surge in requests, and their answer will be a reluctant "no" for now until the situation around the country calms down...

In the meantime, it certainly will be interesting to watch the daily pandemonium created by the copy-catters and other people seeking attention by causing some unrest with these copycat pranks...

Doesn't help us at all...

[GlockenHammer]

Without sounding like I'm on a rant and going on forever, what information should be included. We should perfect a template for every student to use at their school.

My suggestion would be to highlight the stringent qualifications for receiving a CHL, possibly contrasting them with the qualifications your campus security must pass. I'd mention that the Texas Department of Public Safety has issued your license as prima facia evidence that you should be trusted with your gun and that your license is accepted by 32 (verify number) other states. State law allows me to carry on your campus only after receiving your permission. Somehow I'd try to work in that the psychopaths that are willing to commit murder will not care about your policy or decision, but I will abide by it as a law abiding citizen. However, just think about how the VA Tech incident would have turned out if a CHL holder had been present and saved some of the 32 lives that were lost. The administrator that approved his or her carry would then be a hero in themselves.

Good luck and please let us know what your request looks like when finished and what response you get.

GH

[piro]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and am in the same spot. I am looking to have an appointment with the president or vp of ut and see what their opinion on the matter is. Mostly curious if nothing else. Then I would make my points about how I feel and try to get the point across.

One thing I have been thinking about is that if I was in their position I would come up with the scenario of saying "okay, say we allow it and something actually occurs. What can be done about a chl'er not shooting another chl'er because someone say someone else with a gun, but not necessarily shooting at innocent citizens. Or worse confusing a chl'er as the original BG. I think the answer to this is that I would imagine people at least most people on here unless faced with direct possibility of not coming out safe would draw. But what about anyone who ends up getting a CHL for the wrong reasons and drawing because they think they are a cop. I wouldn't be running around across campus gun drawn crouch running to be a hero to intervene in something on the other side of campus, but I could see the possibility of some people doing that. So if I had a sit down talk with someone that had the power to grant me the authority to carry on campus I would make damn sure that I nailed every counter claim home in the presentation to them so they know you are serious and also to save you a bit of sweat from having to be on your toes from a rebuttal.

[frankie_the_yankee]

You might try pointing out that they do not seem to have had any problems in Utah since the state supreme court ruled that colleges HAD to allow concealed carry.

[Will938]

Yes as stated the biggest two problems I can see in their response is concerns over discharges and misidentification when a weapon is drawn.

I need to remind them that carry around campus is allowed and hasn't yet resulted in illegal use by lawful holders (if infact true).

I think the biggest bite we will have against them is to clearly state that no matter how prepared they are they have no control over a motivated person until police arrive. The first person to the scene of the crime is the victim, not the officer. Since they can't provide any hope of safety until police arrive, how can they justify leaving someone practically defenseless in the mean time?

steve_64_d, I don't expect to write a spectacular letter and win them over. However, its better than doing nothing. Maybe we could push to have the school do something instead of leaving it up to the police. Or better yet the state legislature. As conservative as my campus is, it still seems like a long shot.

[stevie_d_64]

steve_64_d, I don't expect to write a spectacular letter and win them over. However, its better than doing nothing. Maybe we could push to have the school do something instead of leaving it up to the police. Or better yet the state legislature. As conservative as my campus is, it still seems like a long shot.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you have every right to make a reasonable and well thought out case for your inquiry...There is nothing unexpected, nor unreasonable in asking...

Press the issue...You are not asking to become some sort of enforcer of anything the campus police department is supposed to be providing...Your position is a personal one that shows great maturity, and you are requesting their courtesy in allowing you to take this responsibility for your safety...

I believe it is just a poor sign of the times that you have to ask permission to do this, but this is a battle that has been going on for too long, and its time we start fighting back...Enough is enough!

And if they refuse to extend a professional courtesy to you in this regard, then I would insist they enumerate why it is they feel they should not allow you to take on this personal task, and that why they believe your doing so puts others at risk, knowing what has happened recently...

Just my 2 cents...

[frankie_the_yankee]

I think the biggest bite we will have against them is to clearly state that no matter how prepared they are they have no control over a motivated person until police arrive. The first person to the scene of the crime is the victim, not the officer.

The lesson of VT is that we CANNOT rely on the police to protect us. Mass murder of 32 people over a 2 hr period is completely off the charts. No matter how you slice it, police protection FAILED SPECTACULARLY.

And if it can fail there, it can fail anywhere, at any time. The authorities at UT or "Univertisy X" might THINK they are smarter than the ones at VT, but how can they know?

After all, this is no isolated case. Protection failed at Columbine, at the Amish school, Jonesboro, and numerous other schools and workplaces - all "gun free zones".

In contrast, when people were able to intervene with guns, such as The Appalachian Law School, Pearl MS, and others, the numbers of dead and injured were far less.

Since they can't be relied upon to effectively protect us, it is morally bankrupt to prevent us from protecting ourselves. Especially when it is demonstrable (as above) that responsible people carrying guns CAN act effectively to save innocent life.