MN: Man arrested after killing burglars

[urnoodle]

Sure... the car was a modified I-Roc Z. They were returning from a bar over the border. There was the driver, a student sitting on the front console with her head partially out of the sunroof, 2 in the front passenger seat (one sitting in the others lap), 3 in the backseat with one laying across the laps of those in the backseat. The scene was a 4 mile straight away with a near 90 degree turn at the end. On the corner of the turn there was a warehouse on the opposite side of the street there was an in-ground transformer. Apparently the driver didn't see the turn so he hit the warehouse at full speed knocking it 2 feet off it's foundation. The one on the center console and the 2 in the front seat were thrown into the basement of the warehouse. The car kept moving and hit the transformer and rolled several times before stopping. The driver was tossed but the 4 in the backseat remained in the car. The girl across the laps of those in the backseat was somewhat crushed and is now a quadraplegic. The two in the basement broke their backs and most of their other bones. The others that remained in the car had injuries that are probably too graphic to post. The only one that had minor injuries was the driver. The speedometer on the car only went up to about 150 or 160. The actual speed was based on the results of the investigation and how much the building was moved by the hit. From what I remember it was said that they may have been going up to 200mph.

[seamusTX]

It's ugly to say but maybe bringing gang bangers and students with behavioral problems into that basement to see the consequences those actions might have an impact. Talking about it just doesn't seem to work.

You can tell them. You can show them. But sometimes they have to learn the hard way. Also there seems to be a nihilistic streak among some kids, which was not the case when I was that age (back in the Pleistocene era). They don't care if they totally screw up their life or the life of anyone else, or get killed.*

Obviously we can blame all the usual suspects such as the disintegration of the family, loss of moral and religious values, the Pill, drugs, and rock and roll.

*P.S.: Upon reflection, there were people like that, but I had nothing to do with them. They were called juvenile delinquents at that time. Now they are called at-risk youth.

- Jim

[VMI77]

I would prefer "more than I needed to" than "not enough" anytime.

So far that is working out great in this case. Hopefully the jailers will put the guy in the infirmary so he doesn't get shanked by a 20-year-old gang-banger. He'll be bankrupt no matter what. His best bet is to get a change of venue and be found not guilty by reason of insanity.

- Jim

Based on what's in the news today, this guy is toast:

http://home.suddenlink.net/news/read.ph ... 3E&ps=1011

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his workshop. When Kifer came down the stairs, he shot her multiple times. He dragged her into the room and as she gasped for air, he fired what he described as a "good clean finishing shot" under her chin "up into the cranium," the complaint said.

[seamusTX]

That article contains information that I had not read before, that the deceased burglars are suspected of another burglary a day earlier.

The homeowner was perfectly justified in shooting to stop the burglars. If had just listened to and understood Charles Cotton's deadly force lecture, he would be a free man today.

- Jim

[recaffeination]

... the burglars were a danger to people sitting at home minding their own business.

That could be true.

However, at the moment of a burglary, robbery, or assault, the intended victim knows only what is in front of him or her.

If I'm sitting at home minding my own business and some criminal breaks into my house, I don't think there's much more I need to know.

A "reasonable man" is not required to pretend the criminals are there for milk and cookies.

[seamusTX]

Do you feel better now?

- Jim

[TexasCajun]

It'll be interesting to see how any toxicology reports and/or mental evaluations change the tone of the investigation. Until factually stated otherwise, I'll still maintain that there may have not been a full deck in the whole cast of characters when this when down.

[seamusTX]

I agree that the deceased, if they were, as reported, trying to steal drugs, weren't pulling up the average IQ of the state of Minnesota. Burglary is stupid. Burglars typically don't get much value out of what they steal, and the hazards are obvious.

Identity theft and embezzlement have a much better payoff, and those people don't get shot. I saw the other day where some guy had embezzled $2 million and just couldn't quit, until he got caught. But I digress.

The defender, while initially justified in using deadly force ...

- Jim

[seamusTX]

Here are some follow-up stories. The two deceased burglars had almost certainly committed other burglaries. Since dead people can't be formally accused of a crime, that information is probably all that will come out about that aspect of the incident.

The accused homeowner got one of the more reputable criminal defense lawyers in Minnesota.

http://brainerddispatch.com/news/crime/ ... ies-abroad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sctimes.com/viewart/20121129 ... polis-firm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/1000 ... t-attorney" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't mean to make light of a serious incident, but one lesson I take away from it is before you open the door for the police, make sure you shave, comb your hair, and wear a decent shirt. Those mug shots get repeated on media sites thousands of times.

- Jim

[Keith B]

I don't mean to make light of a serious incident, but one lesson I take away from it is before you open the door for the police, make sure you shave, comb your hair, and wear a decent shirt. Those mug shots get repeated on media sites thousands of times.

- Jim

Well, I am not sure about that. I showed up at a party one time in a suit and every one else was in jeans and flip-flops. I felt pretty uncomfortable being so over dressed.

However, if you really want to look good maybe you could just go to Glamor Shots and have a really spiffy photo done, print up some small ones and give them to the police and ask them to use it for the mug shot photo.

[ELB]

I hope the school administrators and grief counselors take a moment to point out to the students that if you don't screw yourself up by abusing drugs and breaking into houses, then crazy old men who are otherwise not hurting anybody won't have a chance to over zealously defend their homes.

If only it worked that way.

...

- Jim

No, I don't think it would have the desired effect nowadays, but it would be more honest. I would expect any school official, from janitor to superintendent, who pointed out that these two "kids" deliberately, if unthinkingly, put themselves in the position where it was morally and legally justifiable to shoot them in self-defense would be drummed out of the county by night fall for being "uncaring" (which of course, is part of the bigger problem). The old coot may have dragged them into the basement for the coup de grace, but he didn't drag them into the house in the first place. It is a painful fact that the relatives and friends of the dead kids will refuse to believe has anything to do with their deaths.

[seamusTX]

I showed up at a party one time in a suit and every one else was in jeans and flip-flops. I felt pretty uncomfortable being so over dressed.

'
My high school (as I said, back in the Pleistocene) required us to wear a dress shirt, tie, and jacket all the time. That was considered appropriate business attire for men, and they thought we should get used to it. It worked.

I rarely mind being overdressed. Actually I rarely give a Rhett Butler for what people think.

... if you really want to look good maybe you could just go to Glamor Shots and have a really spiffy photo done, print up some small ones and give them to the police and ask them to use it for the mug shot photo.

I don't think they would accept that.

However, one of my time-wasters is looking at mug shots. Some people (mostly women) look exactly like they are posing for a fashion shoot—makeup, hairstyle, jewelry, the whole nine yards.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

I would expect any school official, from janitor to superintendent, who pointed out that these two "kids" deliberately, if unthinkingly, put themselves in the position where it was morally and legally justifiable to shoot them in self-defense would be drummed out of the county ...

Arguably it would be inappropriate to talk about the specific people who were killed in this case, given the raw emotions.

I just wonder if anyone (other than a few parents) tells kids these days that actions have consequences, and that sometimes they are irreversible. When I was a kid we were absolutely terrified to going to the Audy Home, which is the male juvenile detention center in Chicago. It was and still is a horrible place.

- Jim

[Keith B]

I showed up at a party one time in a suit and every one else was in jeans and flip-flops. I felt pretty uncomfortable being so over dressed.

'
My high school (as I said, back in the Pleistocene) required us to wear a dress shirt, tie, and jacket all the time. That was considered appropriate business attire for men, and they thought we should get used to it. It worked.

I rarely mind being overdressed. Actually I rarely give a Rhett Butler for what people think.

... if you really want to look good maybe you could just go to Glamor Shots and have a really spiffy photo done, print up some small ones and give them to the police and ask them to use it for the mug shot photo.

I don't think they would accept that.

However, one of my time-wasters is looking at mug shots. Some people (mostly women) look exactly like they are posing for a fashion shoot—makeup, hairstyle, jewelry, the whole nine yards.

- Jim

I'm sure you understood my comments were tongue-in-cheek. I just don't want to be the best dressed guy on the post office wall.

[seamusTX]

If you're on the post office wall, at least you're not in jail (yet).

Do they still have wanted posters at the post office? I haven't noticed them for years. Maybe they're in a dark corner or something.

- Jim