Road Rage Shooting in Houston

Reports of actual crimes and investigations, not hypothetical situations.

Moderators: carlson1, Keith B


barstoolguru
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 34
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 am
Location: under a rock in area 51

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#151

Post by barstoolguru »

Fact here is a SINGLE mom (maybe she was abused by her husband)

Maybe she was an alien, but that too is not reported, and not a factor in the discussion, except in your version.

And why not; so your saying that a Woman have problems with her personal life could have no reflection on her shooting another man? Her being a single mom and getting three kids ready for school or daycare and maybe running late and driving eradicable has nothing to do with it either?

and how do we know she doesn't have "battered woman syndrome" ?

you need go back and read all the articles and everything I said came from the articles except for the speculation (that’s free of charge)
Some parents say it is toy guns that make boys warlike. But give a boy a rubber duck and he will seize its neck like the butt of a pistol and shout "Bang!"......George Will
User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 14
Posts: 18502
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#152

Post by Keith B »

barstoolguru wrote:
Fact here is a SINGLE mom (maybe she was abused by her husband)

Maybe she was an alien, but that too is not reported, and not a factor in the discussion, except in your version.

And why not; so your saying that a Woman have problems with her personal life could have no reflection on her shooting another man? Her being a single mom and getting three kids ready for school or daycare and maybe running late and driving eradicable has nothing to do with it either?

and how do we know she doesn't have "battered woman syndrome" ?

you need go back and read all the articles and everything I said came from the articles except for the speculation (that’s free of charge)
Now you're just making up things. You have no idea if she does or not. I think it's time you just drop this unless you have real facts to go on.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4
User avatar

tomtexan
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 1186
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:42 pm
Location: Henderson County, TX

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#153

Post by tomtexan »

barstoolguru wrote: I never said NOT TO CALL a lawyer but when the lawyer in on the scene it would be hard(er) to get a clear picture of what happen. After all, their job is to bend the law in their clients favor.
Fact here is a SINGLE mom (maybe she was abused by her husband) gets into a confrontation with a man (road rage) and because SHE rear ended him. Then she shoots him because she was in fear for her life which is fine if the circumstances where different but she instigated it and the cry’s victim; that I have a problem with.
Was he wrong; sure but was he wrong to the point of being killed for it? After all she had other options but only exercised one. She had a gun and she wasn’t backing down
The driver of the truck had other options too. It seems he chose the wrong one by running up to her vehicle and beating on it. For every action, there is a reaction. She exercised the one she thought was necessary to defend her property and life.
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
NRA Life Member

barstoolguru
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 34
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 am
Location: under a rock in area 51

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#154

Post by barstoolguru »

tomtexan wrote:
barstoolguru wrote:
Was he wrong; sure but was he wrong to the point of being killed for it? After all she had other options but only exercised one. She had a gun and she wasn’t backing down
The driver of the truck had other options too. It seems he chose the wrong one by running up to her vehicle and beating on it. For every action, there is a reaction. She exercised the one she thought was necessary to defend her property and life.

Hundreds of accidents blamed on Houston road rage (over 900 to be exact) but 1780 people didn't shoot one another
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 721059.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Of course the problem is not strictly confined to Houston, San Antonio attributes 680 accidents in the past five years to road rage.
1340 people didn't shoot each other
http://barrylawaustin.com/road-rage-cau ... dents/#top" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

what you need to ask your self how did all these people work things out with out killing each other. my option is because the gun was not the first and only option
he chose the wrong one by running up to her vehicle and beating on it
no one seen it not even the guy STANDING 20 ft away; it is just her word (or her lawyer word because she made no statement to the press)

I have to say did all this actually happen (him beating on her car and/or breaking the window but NEVER making entry) or DID her lawyer tell to say it? When was the statement made… before the lawyer showed up or after?
Some parents say it is toy guns that make boys warlike. But give a boy a rubber duck and he will seize its neck like the butt of a pistol and shout "Bang!"......George Will
User avatar

tomtexan
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 1186
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:42 pm
Location: Henderson County, TX

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#155

Post by tomtexan »

Hundreds of accidents blamed on Houston road rage (over 900 to be exact) but 1780 people didn't shoot one another
Not all of them, but some did. What's your point?
what you need to ask your self how did all these people work things out with out killing each other. my option is because the gun was not the first and only option
All of them did not work it out without killing each other. Some did. You need to go back and re-read the link you posted.
no one seen it not even the guy STANDING 20 ft away; it is just her word (or her lawyer word because she made no statement to the press)

I have to say did all this actually happen (him beating on her car and/or breaking the window but NEVER making entry) or DID her lawyer tell to say it? When was the statement made… before the lawyer showed up or after?
From the Houston Chronicle:
Her account of what happened seemed to match that of witnesses in the area, sheriff's deputies said.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 871363.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
NRA Life Member

barstoolguru
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 34
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 am
Location: under a rock in area 51

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#156

Post by barstoolguru »

Not all of them, but some did. What's your point?
All of them did not work it out without killing each other. Some did. You need to go back and re-read the link you posted.
the numbers where adjusted to reflect the ones that didn't (guess on the number of shooting deaths and more then genirous at that) do the math if 900 CARS had an accident then 1800 people are driving unless it is one of googles new cars
"If he would have been banging on the window and yelling, I would have heard it because it was right there," he said. "Nothing drew my attention. Nothing drew my attention and I was 15-20 feet from there. What drew my was the gunshot." [ and I was 15-20 feet from there. What drew my was the gunshot."
quote][/quote] and his car was hit by a bullet (THAT CLOSE) and the other witnesses?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=8813201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some parents say it is toy guns that make boys warlike. But give a boy a rubber duck and he will seize its neck like the butt of a pistol and shout "Bang!"......George Will

barstoolguru
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 34
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 am
Location: under a rock in area 51

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#157

Post by barstoolguru »

“If you don’t even contact the victim’s family, that just shows how you’re already siding on one side, you don’t even care what the other people are feeling to even tell them,” she said.

http://www.khou.com/news/Girlfriend-of- ... 28896.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some parents say it is toy guns that make boys warlike. But give a boy a rubber duck and he will seize its neck like the butt of a pistol and shout "Bang!"......George Will
User avatar

Jaguar
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1332
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Just west of Cool, Texas

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#158

Post by Jaguar »

Now it’ll be up to a grand jury to decide what, if anything will happen in the wake of the man’s death.
http://www.khou.com/news/Girlfriend-of- ... 28896.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -- James Madison
User avatar

77346
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: Atascocita, TX

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#159

Post by 77346 »

Image
Alex
NRA Benefactor Life & TSRA Life Member
Bay Area Shooting Club Member
CHL since 7/12 | 28 days mailbox-to-mailbox
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#160

Post by WildBill »

77346 wrote:[ Image ]
Can I have some?
NRA Endowment Member

barstoolguru
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 34
Posts: 526
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 am
Location: under a rock in area 51

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#161

Post by barstoolguru »

:fire :cryin :rules: :smash: :thewave
Some parents say it is toy guns that make boys warlike. But give a boy a rubber duck and he will seize its neck like the butt of a pistol and shout "Bang!"......George Will
User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 20
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#162

Post by VMI77 »

Jaguar wrote:
Now it’ll be up to a grand jury to decide what, if anything will happen in the wake of the man’s death.
http://www.khou.com/news/Girlfriend-of- ... 28896.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's a sorry excuse for a "news" article. 75% of it is just statements from the family of the guy who got shot saying what a great guy he was and how he'd never do what he got shot for doing. The bias shown by the author is just short of can't be any more obvious.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 10
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#163

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

barstoolguru wrote::fire :cryin :rules: :smash: :thewave
I admit that I'm late to this thread, but I've now read the vast majority of posts. I can't believe the stuff you've been posting. You make things up out of whole cloth simply to further a fight with one or more Members. You're comments about the way safety glass acts in response to being struck is clearly wrong. Your pontificating on the law is wrong; your rendition of the facts are contra to what was supported by LEO investigation, witness accounts, and (apparently) video surveillance records.

"Cutting each other off" is hardly an admission of even a traffic offense, much less a criminal offense. What was meant by that statement? What did it entail? The woman stated that the man would pull in front of her and slam on his brakes. Perhaps she went around him and got in front. I have no idea if that's what happened, but it's certainly logical, it would fit the description of "cutting each other off" and it is not a crime or traffic violation by any stretch of the imagination. Regardless how you want to spin it, it doesn't constitute provocation that deprives one of their right to defend themselves.

You're repeatedly claimed the attacker never "threatened" anyone because no one else saw/heard it. First, a threat doesn't have to be verbal, it can be physical. More importantly, a verbal threat isn't even necessary and often doesn't not exist in self-defense shootings. Perhaps you would consider reading TPC §9.32. Also, the news report indicated the deputies interviewed witnesses who corroberated the woman's statement and they reviewed the video of the incident. If so, they have firm facts as opposed to your rank speculation.

As others have noted, the videos I saw showed damage to the front of his vehicle, so it appears he hit her car.

Perhaps she could have driven away, perhaps not. The important point is that there was no duty to drive away before defending herself (TPC §9.32(c)). In fact, if she were to go to trial, the jury could never even be told that she had an opportunity to "retreat" and chose not to do so. (TPC §9.32(d)). The Texas Penal Code expressly prohibits the argument (driving away) you are making now. Why? Because it's irrelevant to self-defense and it's introduction into the trial would be motivated solely by a desire to unfairly and unlawfully prejudice the jury against the defendant.

I don't know precisely what happened because I was not involved in the investigation, nor have I read the case file. I am confident that the Harris County Sheriff's Dept. investigators have fully investigated the case. I'm also confident that the Harris County DA's Office will do likewise and that a Harris County Grand Jury will have all of the information it needs to make a responsible decision as to whether this case should go to trial.

As others have said, you are race-baiting and it's going to stop now. I don't care if it's white v. black, black v. white, or pink v. blue, it has no place here on the Forum.

As Keith warned many posts ago, keep this debate civil or I will be more than happy to take care of the problem. You love pushing the envelope and it has been pushed to the breaking point. If you insist in trying to provoke a heated discussion on issues, then you can do so using your real name as your screen name. Post it here on this thread and I'll change your screen name and we will verify it is correct.

Chas.
TPC §9.32 wrote:Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
  • (b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

    (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

    (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

    (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

    . . .

    (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

    (c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.

    (d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 20
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#164

Post by VMI77 »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
barstoolguru wrote::fire :cryin :rules: :smash: :thewave
I admit that I'm late to this thread, but I've now read the vast majority of posts. I can't believe the stuff you've been posting. You make things up out of whole cloth simply to further a fight with one or more Members. You're comments about the way safety glass acts in response to being struck is clearly wrong. Your pontificating on the law is wrong; your rendition of the facts are contra to what was supported by LEO investigation, witness accounts, and (apparently) video surveillance records.

"Cutting each other off" is hardly an admission of even a traffic offense, much less a criminal offense. What was meant by that statement? What did it entail? The woman stated that the man would pull in front of her and slam on his brakes. Perhaps she went around him and got in front. I have no idea if that's what happened, but it's certainly logical, it would fit the description of "cutting each other off" and it is not a crime or traffic violation by any stretch of the imagination. Regardless how you want to spin it, it doesn't constitute provocation that deprives one of their right to defend themselves.

You're repeatedly claimed the attacker never "threatened" anyone because no one else saw/heard it. First, a threat doesn't have to be verbal, it can be physical. More importantly, a verbal threat isn't even necessary and often doesn't not exist in self-defense shootings. Perhaps you would consider reading TPC §9.32. Also, the news report indicated the deputies interviewed witnesses who corroberated the woman's statement and they reviewed the video of the incident. If so, they have firm facts as opposed to your rank speculation.

As others have noted, the videos I saw showed damage to the front of his vehicle, so it appears he hit her car.

Perhaps she could have driven away, perhaps not. The important point is that there was no duty to drive away before defending herself (TPC §9.32(c)). In fact, if she were to go to trial, the jury could never even be told that she had an opportunity to "retreat" and chose not to do so. (TPC §9.32(d)). The Texas Penal Code expressly prohibits the argument (driving away) you are making now. Why? Because it's irrelevant to self-defense and it's introduction into the trial would be motivated solely by a desire to unfairly and unlawfully prejudice the jury against the defendant.

I don't know precisely what happened because I was not involved in the investigation, nor have I read the case file. I am confident that the Harris County Sheriff's Dept. investigators have fully investigated the case. I'm also confident that the Harris County DA's Office will do likewise and that a Harris County Grand Jury will have all of the information it needs to make a responsible decision as to whether this case should go to trial.

As others have said, you are race-baiting and it's going to stop now. I don't care if it's white v. black, black v. white, or pink v. blue, it has no place here on the Forum.

As Keith warned many posts ago, keep this debate civil or I will be more than happy to take care of the problem. You love pushing the envelope and it has been pushed to the breaking point. If you insist in trying to provoke a heated discussion on issues, then you can do so using your real name as your screen name. Post it here on this thread and I'll change your screen name and we will verify it is correct.

Chas.
TPC §9.32 wrote:Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
  • (b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

    (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

    (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

    (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

    . . .

    (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

    (c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.

    (d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
And correct me if I'm wrong please Mr. Cotton, but as I understand the law "with force" in this case could merely be pulling up the handle and opening, or trying to open, an unlocked (or locked) door?
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com

ddurkof
Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:50 am

Re: Road Rage Shooting in Houston

#165

Post by ddurkof »

Falstaff: "To die is to be a counterfeit, for he is but the counterfeit of a man who hath not the life of a man; but to counterfeit dying, when a man thereby liveth, is to be no counterfeit, but the true and perfect image of life indeed. The better part of valor is discretion, in the which better part I have sav'd my life." Henry The Fourth, Part 1 Act 5, scene 4

You can save your life by your actions. While getting upset because someone ran in to you is normal, you have the ability act like a rational human being. It may save your life.
Post Reply

Return to “The Crime Blotter”