Defending Your Property Line

[Valk]

Does anyone have a right to use your property to reach your neighbors house? I know there are utility easements in the front and in the back of properties, and I also know that a company that has mineral rights on your property can erect an oil derrick and drill for oil, without your permission. But what about the side of your home?

This event occurred prior to obtaining my CHL.

I am home all day and I always check outside when I hear cars or diesel engines coming and stop near my house. One day I heard a diesel and I looked out and saw a fire engine in front of my house. I freaked and ran outside. They were painting a fire hydrant.

On another day I heard 2 trucks stop and I went to peek out my window. I saw 2 trucks with trailers. They were contractors, but I did not recognize their out of state company. They had two large pieces of equipment with tracks. They had parked one of their trucks with trailers in front of my house and one in front of my next door neighbor’s house to perform a service in the neighbors back yard. Till this day, I don’t know what was done. Homes in our neighborhood are only about 12-15 feet apart.

As they were unloading the equipment, I opened my garage door walked out and stood on my driveway.

The contractors certainly intended to use my driveway and the side of my house to get to the job instead of using my neighbor’s yard. My neighbor has a flower bed with the long sectional flat cement curves all the way to the property line on the side of my house. They could have easily driven over his flower bed as there were no flowers or trees. Since there were 5 contractors, I went back into my house and grabbed my pistol and placed it in the garage without them ever suspecting anything. As they approached my driveway from the street, I walked back out to my driveway and although I didn't say anything, I moved my head slowly from side to side, definitely letting them know that they would not be leaving tracks and destroying my yard. They ended up moving the equipment through my neighbor’s yard with the edge of the tracks right on the property line.

I altered their behavior without saying a word.

So now that I have a CHL, I don’t see myself doing anything other than what I did, except I may be armed from the start. I still have to disagree with open carry on my property because I have a cop across the street with cameras on his house and a state trooper at the end of the street. As I have said in another thread, if I were to strap my pistol on my person and walk around my yard, a 10-32 (man with a gun) would be called out from the police dispatcher very quickly. NOTE I am not trying to fan those flames.

If you tell someone they are trespassing and they don’t stop or leave, what’s next?

[Keith B]

If you tell someone they are trespassing and they don’t stop or leave, what’s next?

You call the police and don't get confrontational, and potentially go back inside. Unless you are at risk of bodily harm, then you are best to let them handle everything. You will open a BIG can of worms if you approach them with a gun drawn for just stepping foot on your property.

[ffemt300]

If you tell someone they are trespassing and they don’t stop or leave, what’s next?

You call the police and don't get confrontational, and potentially go back inside. Unless you are at risk of bodily harm, then you are best to let them handle everything. You will open a BIG can of worms if you approach them with a gun drawn for just stepping foot on your property.

Exactly. Remember we as CHL holders have a greater responsibility to be the bigger person. Sometimes it's hard because we all default to our emotions at some point in time. Just keep cool and let 911 do what it does. Unless they are breaking down my door, it is a police matter. Good stuff =)

[cubbyjg]

If you are not willing to just talk to the individuals or they do not want to speak with you, just call the cops. Maybe a chat with the neighbor to let him know that you dont want people on your property when he is getting work done to his house might help as well. Have you tried that? Does your HOA have any rules regarding this topic? If so, let them do the work for you and report it to them.

My neighbor had to get a dead palm tree removed from his front yard and when the crew came to remove it, they realized they needed to come up my driveway. They asked politely, and i said no problem. Unless you feel your LIFE is in grave danger, keep the firearm either concealed on you or somewhere else. Why place yourself in a situation YOU can avoid?

[steveincowtown]

I altered their behavior without saying a word.

To each there own, but I pride myself on my "verbal Judo." I think a simple, "Hey guys, whats going on?" with a follow up of "Ok, I see, well I'd prefer you not cut through my property, and if you do I am going to need your phone number so my wife can yell at you not me ."


Standing in ones yard and staring someone down instead of engaging them verbally may very well cause unintended escalation of the situation.

Anyhow...to each there own.

[RoyGBiv]

Open questions..
1. When you look at the official survey of your property, are there any easements?
2. If yes, what is the stated purpose of those officially recorded easements?

It's very likely the firemen have legal, nothing-you-can-do-about-it, access to maintain the hydrant.

As for the neighbors contractors, why not go out and politely ask them what their plans are?
If they plan to access their work via your property, you can ask them the details and whether they plan to restore anything damaged, then you can decide whether to allow it. You may not have a choice...

If there is a utility easement, for example, and the contractors are there to repair or install cable/power/phone, they can legally use the easement for such work. I am not sure what Texas law says about their responsibility for restoring anything damaged. I had a similar issue in NC and IIRC, if you put anything in an easement and it's damaged by "easement work", too bad. You should not have put your fence/plants/concrete driveway/etc in the easement. At least that's how I remember it. Even so, the utility workers I interacted with were all happy to work with me to minimize damage (I was concerned with trees, gravel roadbeds and drainage ditches at the time). A few suggestions/requests from me and they got about their work with no problems.

When did a gun and a threatening nod come to replace open communication?
Now that you have a CHL, you have been informed and trained on your responsibility to DE-escalate this type of situation. In the contractor example, I strongly urge you to rethink your behavior as it pertains to deescalation.

I am not a lawyer. This is just my opinion, not legal advice.

[Jim Beaux]

We have to allow access to easements on our property & the contractors can do what is necessary to gain access, such as removing fencing and portable buildings that may be on the easement.

I have had positive experiences when dealing with contractors working on my easements. I generally meet them and ask what the scope of work is. I then ask questions and express my concerns. I offer them access to my water hydrant/hose, maybe some cold drinking water, shady spot in the yard, etc.

The contractors appreciate my consideration and often do a little extra for me, & at the least have always repaired any damage and left my property in good shape. What goes around, comes around.

[Kadelic]

Something that was covered in my CHL class, and more recently, in a defensive driving class, comes to mind. In the CHL class I think it was covered under the conflict resolution/de-escalation section. In defensive driving it is simply referred to as what attitude you are working from at any given time. There are three states one can operate from: The child, the parent, or the adult. The child wants to be competitive, rebellious, and uninhibited. The parent wants to be controlling and wants to punish or discipline. The adult is the rational, reasonable one who doesn't challenge or back down unnecessarily, but will if the situation warrants. Anyway, I think it's interesting how a (perhaps oversimplified) aspect of psychology can help us "keep things real" in a potentially confontational situation.

[JJVP]

I don't see the situation you describe as a gun situation. You just need to talk to the people and ask what they are doing. If hey say they planned to use you driveway for access, all you have to do is say "No". If they get confrontational, just go inside and call the cops. I see no need at all to bring a gun into the situation.

[Valk]

Questions still remain. Why my yard? What happened to someone knocking on the door to let me know what was about to take place?

[barstoolguru]

Property rights are conveyed when a deed is sighed BUT most utility co reserve the right to the first 5-50 ft. property line for utilities. This is true when it comes to acreage and not so much in cities
The law says you can't use deadly force against a trespasser UNLESS they are stealing or you are in fear of death or injury

Call the cops

[KC5AV]

If I understand your original post correctly, you said the neighbor had flowerbeds with edging, etc. If they had to move that stuff before bringing the equipment through, they most likely thought that going through your yard would save them time. It's likely in their best interest to get a job done as quickly as possible.

[Valk]

If I understand your original post correctly, you said the neighbor had flowerbeds with edging, etc. If they had to move that stuff before bringing the equipment through, they most likely thought that going through your yard would save them time. It's likely in their best interest to get a job done as quickly as possible.

In the OP I did say there was nothing in the flower bed and they could have easily rolled over it.

[anygunanywhere]

Questions still remain. Why my yard? What happened to someone knocking on the door to let me know what was about to take place?

Since Mrs. Anygun and I purchased our retirement place we regularly request individuals remove themselves from our property. We have a stocked pond that we share with 2 neighbors, one of whom was the developer. Over the years it seems that the developer has informed everyone that it is OK to fish.

It did not take long for me to grow weary of picking up the trash, empty beer cans and water bottles, and track the ATV trackes over our 4.8 acres before I began to forbid trespassing.

I have never had to call the SO.

I have experienced some really stupid responses:

"I did not know someone owned this properety"

"I did not know you owned this property"

"I thought this was a park"

"My dogs just wanted to swim in the water"

"My grandsons wanted to fish. You don't mind do you?"

This is a small samle. I must admit that the numbers have dropped significantly. No one has ever knocked on my door to ask permission.

I am always armed on my place and I am always armed when I talk to someone. I am always polite and introduce myself while inquiring into who they are and what they are doing.

Anygunanywhere

[RPBrown]

I have to agree with some of the above.
1) why did you go back inside to get your gun? Did they have weapons? If so I can understand but I would probably guess no (other than tools)
2) Why did you not ask their intent? Then express your concern
3) Why did you not offer a viable alternative to using your yard. (If they had even planned on using it)
4) It appears to me you were de-escalating before any escalation even happened. This is not a good thing, especially if you are armed.

Remember, your CHL and your weapon does not replace the best tool you have, your brain. You have to really know when you would have to use it or expect a whole lot of trouble coming your way.