Tarrant County - posted

[seamusTX]

So, should I write the Texas AG for an opinion?

As I understand it, the AG writes opinions only for state agencies. (I'm sure I'll be told if I'm wrong.)

- Jim

[wo5m]

The Amon carter Museum, our 2nd stop Wednesday, is not posted.

The Fort Worth Zoo is registered with the State of Texas as an
educational facility. As such, we are simply abiding with the law in
posting the No Firearms signage.

I wonder if they realize that the The Amon carter Museum is also a "educational facility". They even have a "Teaching Resource Center" that, as far as I know, the zoo doesn't have. Ether way, it still doesn't meet the criteria in the CHL laws.

[KBCraig]

Hi, Mr. Burkheimer.

...

The Fort Worth Zoo is registered with the State of Texas as an
educational facility. As such, we are simply abiding with the law in
posting the No Firearms signage. ...

First off, the AG will not give you an opinion. The Texas AG only issues opinions to agencies and legislators and government officials.

Second, Lyndsay sounds quite cute, but she is mistaken about the law. Registering with the state as an "educational facility" does not make the Zoo a "school", any more than my not registering my private (home) school makes it "not a school". If a facility is a school, then no 30.06 notice is required. Even 30.06 notices posted on public K-12 schools are invalid; a CHL is only in trouble if he carries inside the statutorily-defined "premises", which is true whether or there are any signs giving notice.

Instead of writing the AG, I'd write the zoo's legal counsel. Put them on official notice that their signs have no legal standing.

Of course, the sad part is that any government agency can post 30.06 notices, even though they aren't enforceable, because there is no penalty for posting the notices. The signs aren't "illegal", they're just unenforceable.

Kevin

[maximus2161]

Well go visit the Cameron Zoo in Waco. Its a nice little zoo. No 30.06 postings either. I would havent have bothered with the FW Zoo and carried. I would have locked up my firearm as well. I just choose not to go to the FW Zoo anymore.

[GrillKing]

Of course, the sad part is that any government agency can post 30.06 notices, even though they aren't enforceable, because there is no penalty for posting the notices. The signs aren't "illegal", they're just unenforceable.

I think many gov't administrators post anyway because they know many CHL holders don't want to be a test case.

Legally 'enforceble' or not, there is the chance you may be arrested if discovered. Would a responding officer know or maybe even care whether or not the zoo is a 'school'. I think the zoo is counting on CHL holders uncertainty and unwillingness (I'll confess, I'm unwilling) to be the test case. I have no doubt I would win in court, but at great expense and inconvenience.

Surely their attorneys can understand the law, but say post anyway. Posting is not illegal, it is just not binding.

Just a thought....

[RKirby]

The Ft. Worth Zoo does operate a "Zoo School"...my son used to attend when he was younger. AFAIK however, it only operates during the summer months.

This may be why they are considered an educational facility.

[AG-EE]

The Ft. Worth Zoo does operate a "Zoo School"...my son used to attend when he was younger. AFAIK however, it only operates during the summer months.

This may be why they are considered an educational facility.

I don't see them as qualifying as a school. Can they levy a property tax, do they have an elected school board, is Zoo School part of any state approved curriculum?

I think they are stretching their arms out a little wider than they have legal bounds to do so.

[Rex B]

I agree, but I'm not willing to make the point by being an example.

I wonder if TSRA attorneys would write a letter to the Zoo's legal counsel to point out the invalidity of their position?

[AG-EE]

I doubt that would make a difference. They don't want guns there, so they don't care what the law says.

[casselthief]

course, soon as a gorilla escapes, starts slappin' the tourists around...
who do they call?

[stevie_d_64]

I dunno...If my wife said to ignore something...By golly I'm ignoring it!

But seriously (yes I still listen to my wife), this is just another example of why its frustrating to those of us in this community, that we are not to be trusted, and that those who do not wish us to make waves will do what they can to cloud up the situation when we ask for clarification...

I'd much rather hash it out in here than ask them for "permission" for anything more...

I believe we are making some headway in the legislature this session, and we should be pleased with the outcome once again...

It really bothers me when I hear about folks I know, who want to do something fun and entertaining, and end up seeing things like this and it just ruins the experience in some ways...

[lrb111]

Well, as a a school you can't carry in the "premises"... So, stay on the sidewalk, stay out of the herpetorium buildings, aquarium buildings, out of the cages, etc.

[Bif]

So, should I write the Texas AG for an opinion?

Wouldn't do you any good. The Texas AG will respond to requests for an opinion ONLY for the state of Texas, not private citizens or organizations.

What you can do is report the illegal 30.06 posting of a city owned facility to the DPS , to the Governor's office, and possibly have an attorney contact the city with notice of impending lawsuit.

My opinion is that a facility like a zoo cannot simply "register" as an educational facility/institution and qualify as such.

They would have to be conducting regular courses, classes, regimens of study and be accepting applicants for such and granting degrees/diplomas. And be an actual part of a university, school district campus, or similar.

And if so qualified would not need a 30.06 posting. I think the reply you received is totally bogus.

This needs legal action. Start a fund dedicated for an Attorney's fees.

[Rex B]

I'm enough of a troublemaker to make some waves on this.
I'll start by contacting DPS

Rex