Is this legal?

[ScooterSissy]

And "It Depends" changes every day in every situation. And boils down to which Investigator you draw, if they're getting along with their spouse and kids that day, which DA you draw and all the little things like what their personal beliefs are about CHL. Then it depends on which lawyer you can afford, and who shows up for jury duty and what kind of mentality they have.

The question that is asked is "When can I shoot?" or "Can I shoot if x happens?" What they really mean is, "Will I have to deal with legal ramifications if I shoot?" The answer to that is a most resounding Yes! You'll have to deal with the police, you more than likely will have to deal with a lawyer. You might have to deal with a DA, a Grand Jury, and later a Judge and Jury. This is a very scary position that most sane people don't want to have to be in. So, while the law may say this or that when it comes to when you should shoot, my personal rule of thumb is only shoot if I feel that myself or some other innocent person may not walk away from the situation if I don't shoot. That way, no matter what I have to deal with on the legal side, I have less to deal with on the conscious side of the matter.

It also depends upon how well you can articulate the facts that led you to believe you were in immediate danger from deadly force, even if the BG turns out to be unarmed.

Contrast how these two descriptions paint a different picture:

Description 1: A guy approached me in a parking lot so I shot him. I don't know if he was armed.

Description 2: I was in a isolated parking lot with no other cars nearby. I saw the man start walking towards me. I altered course and noted he also altered his course to intercept me. I held my weak hand out in a "Stop" gesture and told him to stay away from me, but he kept approaching. I noticeably placed my strong hand on the grip of my handgun while repeating the "Stop" gesture with my other hand and now telling him, "STOP RIGHT THERE, DO NOT APPROACH ME" in a command voice. He continued coming, now at a brisker pace. I drew my handgun at low ready, and told him "I AM WARNING YOU TO STOP APPROACHING ME OR I WILL SHOOT". He started running towards me. I could not see his hands. I concluded if he was still willing to continue what appears to be an attack in that manner even though he knew I was armed, he must have the means to be deadly himself and had bad intentions. I believed the entire approach to be an imminent robbery. Means, motive, opportunity. I stopped the threat.

Same basic facts but two entirely different articulations.

Though not the exact same example, this was basically what my instructor taught.

[brainman]

I definitely agree with the postings about the definition of deadly force. "Serious bodily harm" is part of deadly force, and clearly, being pounded upon can cause it. The downside is that you may have to convince a jury. Just ask George Zimmerman.

The other part that is being left out here is that the OP likely involved robbery. Aside from the fists issues, section 9.32 says that deadly force is justified when you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent commission of robbery.

[tbrown]

I definitely agree with the postings about the definition of deadly force. "Serious bodily harm" is part of deadly force, and clearly, being pounded upon can cause it. The downside is that you may have to convince a jury. Just ask George Zimmerman.

I thought he convinced the local cops and the DA.

Then some racists came along and threatened to incite riots across the country if he wasn't arrested for defending himself. So the government had to bring in a special prostitute to falsify charges and arrest Mr. Zimmerman.

[brainman]

Tbrown, I think you hit the nail square on the head. Especially like the special prostitute. I'm gonna have to start using that.

[wharvey]

I definitely agree with the postings about the definition of deadly force. "Serious bodily harm" is part of deadly force, and clearly, being pounded upon can cause it. The downside is that you may have to convince a jury. Just ask George Zimmerman.

I thought he convinced the local cops and the DA.

Then some racists came along and threatened to incite riots across the country if he wasn't arrested for defending himself. So the government had to bring in a special prostitute to falsify charges and arrest Mr. Zimmerman.

[Songbird]

For example, "If they block the door, I'm going to verbally demand they move. If they demand my money or respond with a threat, I'm going to draw. If they begins to attack, I'm going to shoot."

I guess everyone has a different perspective. If I was in the scenario above, I would feel threatened enough to draw when they blocked the door. I'm not going to wait around to see if they move when I verbally demand that they do so.

[jdkinman]

For example, "If they block the door, I'm going to verbally demand they move. If they demand my money or respond with a threat, I'm going to draw. If they begins to attack, I'm going to shoot."

I guess everyone has a different perspective. If I was in the scenario above, I would feel threatened enough to draw when they blocked the door. I'm not going to wait around to see if they move when I verbally demand that they do so.

As you're drawing, at the top of your lungs, you need to be shouting something like, "Don't come any closer! Leave me alone! PLEASE, I DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT YOU--JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!!!"

And while you're yelling for others outside the door to hear, make your you have the absolute craziest, insane looking war face on you can muster for the bad guys to see.

Not all criminals or would be-hoods are totally stupid.

JD

[speedsix]

...I would strongly advise against all that yelling...once you draw, you need to put all your focus on sight alignment and trigger squeeze...they already know what to do to stop your action...and you will slow yourself down trying to do two things at once...many moons ago in police training, they taught us that, if you can get a perp to talking, you can take his gun barrel off you before he can pull the trigger, and disarm him...I did it several times that day...and I'm amongst the slowest hoomin beans I know...something to do with the brain/motor connections...

[AZZMIE]

I would personally feel that it would be justified. For instance, if it is at a urinal, he is a threat, you pull the trigger, he dies. At that point, it's your word against his. It sounds to me like aggravated sexual assault ( the bathroom, urinal, the two alone, no surveillance, etc...). I found this on the texas chl laws.
PC §9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm
Below is a direct link:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetfo ... chl-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am not an attorney, nor do I practice law.