Is a vehicle a deadly weapon?

[Steel Shank]

If he's in an Accura, wouldn't it have been fairly easy to outmaneuver a monster truck and get some separation? Leagally, of course.

[fickman]

Are there any witnesses? If so, they should corroborate his story. I'd expect something that extreme would've earned more than a couple of 911 calls.

If not, on a road as big as I-35, your brother would have certainly had room to go around the truck while it was stopped or in reverse.

I'm guessing he played a role in the provocation. I have been in some completely one-sided incidents, but they are extremely rare, and proving you remained clam and had no role in the matter is hard because most people - at some point in their life - have acted like a fool on the road. If he didn't, and he was truly trapped somehow and couldn't move his car for some reason, the I hope he wins his case.

To show your firearm is to threaten the use of deadly force. If you do it, it better be justified, and you better call the police the first second you're able to do so.

this is incorrect, read up on it

I have.

I didn't mean that every intentional failing to conceal is equivalent to threatening deadly force. In mid-conflict, drawing your firearm, displaying it as a retort to a provocation, or aiming it. . . any of these can be interpreted as, or actually do, meet the criteria of threatening the use of deadly force.

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

this is the law, it is significantly different in its form than your interpretation, basically it states that if you show/pull/aim your weapon you have NOT used deadly force. you are stating in a round about way that production of weapon falls under the deadly force statute and this clearly states that is incorrect. I do agree that the local Law enforcement agency needs to notified, however the actor did NOT use deadly force at any time, he only used the weapon to create the belief that he would if it was necessary and there fore used force but not deadly force, the law does not state anything about the threat of deadly force per se but only a threat to cause, so on and so forth.

I don't disagree with your statements and I never said anything contrary to them. I'm very familiar with the law you quoted and have no different interpretation of it.

USING force, USING deadly force, and THREATENING force are all different things. The OP's brother threatened the use of force. I never accused him of using deadly force.

[Kabong30]

I think I posted this someplace else, but I'll put in the quick version here. My father got screwed with on the road and screwed back (prevented a car from passing in a no passing zone) both parties were completely in the wrong. The initiator of the interaction cut my father off at a stop sign, jumped out and ran back toward the car, my father pulled his pistol and showed it to the guy. Guy called the cops, we all went to court and my dad got hit with "brandishing" and 6 months probation. This was in AZ years ago, but I think that there are enough similarities that a similar conclusion might be in the offing for your brother.

As for my own personal experience with something like this, (which is part of why I own guns and carry now). Coming back from a buddy's house in Melissa, we had a guy in a black Impala (an old cop car that had been spray painted) started following me and then moved up and started trying to run us off the road. I had my wife and baby son in the car. He followed us off an exit and then back on the freeway, and I finally got off the freeway again at the last second, but he actually stopped on the overpass and watched me while I called the police from a gas station. The guy left by the time the cops arrived, and they escorted us out of town, but within a month of that encounter I purchased my first handgun. It doesn't really apply to this situation, but I thought I'd share anyway.

[JP171]

Are there any witnesses? If so, they should corroborate his story. I'd expect something that extreme would've earned more than a couple of 911 calls.

If not, on a road as big as I-35, your brother would have certainly had room to go around the truck while it was stopped or in reverse.

I'm guessing he played a role in the provocation. I have been in some completely one-sided incidents, but they are extremely rare, and proving you remained clam and had no role in the matter is hard because most people - at some point in their life - have acted like a fool on the road. If he didn't, and he was truly trapped somehow and couldn't move his car for some reason, the I hope he wins his case.

To show your firearm is to threaten the use of deadly force. If you do it, it better be justified, and you better call the police the first second you're able to do so.

this is incorrect, read up on it

I have.

I didn't mean that every intentional failing to conceal is equivalent to threatening deadly force. In mid-conflict, drawing your firearm, displaying it as a retort to a provocation, or aiming it. . . any of these can be interpreted as, or actually do, meet the criteria ofthreatening the use of deadly force.

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

this is the law, it is significantly different in its form than your interpretation, basically it states that if you show/pull/aim your weapon you have NOT used deadly force. you are stating in a round about way that production of weapon falls under the deadly force statute and this clearly states that is incorrect. I do agree that the local Law enforcement agency needs to notified, however the actor did NOT use deadly force at any time, he only used the weapon to create the belief that he would if it was necessary and there fore used force but not deadly force, the law does not state anything about the threat of deadly force per se but only a threat to cause, so on and so forth.

I don't disagree with your statements and I never said anything contrary to them. I'm very familiar with the law you quoted and have no different interpretation of it.

USING force, USING deadly force, and THREATENING force are all different things. The OP's brother threatened the use of force. I never accused him of using deadly force.

as I read the blue part that does say you said he used deadly force( the law also states threatening deadly force is using deadly force), but I'll agree to disagree and not post more on the subject

[fickman]

as I read the blue part that does say you said he used deadly force( the law also states threatening deadly force is using deadly force), but I'll agree to disagree and not post more on the subject

Yep. . . not trying to feud at all. If I implied something inaccurate, I'll encourage OP to read your exposition as I agree with it as well.

[C-dub]

If nothing else, let this be a lesson to all.

If you draw, show, or threaten another with your weapon, call 911 immediately!

The first caller gets to be the "victim". Don't let your attacker be the first caller!

Been at Six Flags all day today. Crossfire beat me to it.

[rogersinsel]

Pulling your weapon in this case isn't justified. It does not fit the use of force guidlines. I think it is rather simple, don't pull it unless you're going to shoot it and NEVER do it for show.

[Kabong30]

Yeah, that's my philosophy too.

[RoyGBiv]

Save all those texts messages and get a lawyer. Yes the texts were full of wrong advice, but it shows some of the timing of events prior to the actual arrest. Save them. They may save his butt.

Compare the time stamp on the text messages with the time of the 911 call...
Yes... He should have called 911 way before the monster truck guys stopped him.

[jamjam]

This tiny CHL family must stick together.

[jamjam]

In my class, I was taught that you can use up to deadly force to prevent the commission of a felony. I respect your opinion, but please don't say a person was foolish for defending their life.

[jamjam]

Couldn't the text messages be evidence?

Yes, we're hoping so! The texts DO show he wasn't acting rashly, he was very reluctant to do anything, couldn't get away, etc. Then to find out your cell phone went dead!!! So now you can't call anyone.I'm still shocked in Texas they are prosecuting a CHL holder w/no record, all at the word of a couple of teens? I pray none of you ever find yourselves in the same unconventional, yet equally valid situation. And keep an extra cell phone battery charged, just in case.

[jamjam]

Oh my God! I want to say I can't believe this happened, but I DO believe it happened, exactly as you say, b/c as a person of a certain age (a few years over 35), I've seen so much.

[jamjam]

I'm a woman, 5'2", 110 lbs. I can't fight. But I can shoot.

[jamjam]

Hey, thanks for your advice.