NguyenVanDon wrote:This is great info you guys are giving. So basically there is 2 side on this, but shooting the guy in broad daylight when he running away with my wallet is a NO. And yeah, I do not have 50k to spare on court, bail, and any other extra expenses.
But I am still confused though. It said in reasons if I believe my wallet would not be recovered at all, then I can shoot the guy still?
NOT DURING THE DAY.
Sweet...Thanks.
Night = Yes
Daytime = No
Actually, night= maybe, and a whole other discussion.
*CHL Instructor*
"Speed is Fine, but accuracy is final"- Bill Jordan
Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.
I got into a similar discussion with a guy recently who said that you can never be justified in shoot anyone in the back.
I argued that, if the person was still a threat to you or others, that you could indeed shoot him in the back and be justified in doing so. For instance, he still has his gun in his hand and may be running for cover to return fire. Or he could be running in a direction where he might be a threat to your family or other innocents.
I don't think I could bring myself to shoot someone for stealing my wallet. But I'm careful about where I carry my wallet, and where I pull it out.
The best solution to this dilemma is to pay attention while your change is being counted to you, or to count it while you're still at the register. If the cashier shorted you and you don't notice it before you leave, you're gonna have a difficult time recovering the remainder anyway.
There just aren't that many things I'd shoot a person for. There has to be a threat, whether real or perceived (such as something that might be perceived during a "theft in the night" as opposed to in the daytime).
I think this is no more about right and wrong rather then legally justified or not. If you are that concerned about your wallet you need to get the kind you hang around your neck, or that chains to your belt. You should also carry as little cash as possible, and stay alert to your surroundings. You should also keep a piece of paper with any account info for cards, with the number to the institution locked up in a safe at home. This way you can cancel the cards without looking for the numbers. Taking a life, ANY life, should not be done over something like a wallet. I can't think of a thing I own that is worth the $50 mentioned earlier, let alone half that. I also can't think of anything anyone rich I know owns that is worth a life. People get sued for shooting someone who was in their home with a gun to hurt and rob them. Do you really think this guy you just killed's family is not going to sue you for wrongful death? If you have some zealot DA, or Investigator they will come after you, and you will have to hire one hell of an attorney in order not to go to jail. Point it I can think of a thousand different reasons to shoot someone running away with my wallet, but I can't think of one that trumps the reasoning of it just being just plain old WRONG. For those who think it's right, well next time you lose your wallet, I sure hope you don't open fire on the person responsible...
My posts on this website are worth every cent you paid me for them.
This is excellent source that can help me in the long run, especially if anyone was in this situation. I wouldn't take anyone life if they stole my wallet. I'm much more better than that. I was just clarifying if its legally to shoot the guy while he ran and took my wallet, but it seems I found my answer already.
Twist with a different scenario:
Lets use the same situation what I wrote on the first page. WITHOUT using Deadly Force, am I'm able to draw my gun out and just use Force? All I want is to scare my victim so he can drop my wallet and run away. Am I'm allowed to do that?
I believe pulling the gun out is a bad idea. Force is beating the guy with your fists.. No pulling your gun. Don't pull your gun if your not justified and ready to use it.
jhutto wrote:I believe pulling the gun out is a bad idea. Force is beating the guy with your fists.. No pulling your gun. Don't pull your gun if your not justified and ready to use it.
Here's the thing. The way I was taught by my instructor is that...
If I felt threaten and afraid of my life, I am able to draw my weapon and use force. Once the situation settled, I have to dial 911 immediately. Give a report that I am a CHL holder. Some random male ran and snatched my wallet out my hand. I drew my weapon because I was I felt threaten and I was afraid for my life. I used Force to make him drop my wallet, but will not shoot the guy for any reason, unless he drew a weapon at me.
Would that consider to be a legal situation by pulling my gun out if I reported to the cops right then and there?
Welcome!
You really need to sit down and think long and hard about the Damage caused by these weapons. Not only the physical damage, but the financial, social, and emotional, This is not T.V. Shooting someone will change your life.
Force is beating the guy with your fists.. No pulling your gun.
You need to read the laws, and maybe even some type of religous text to find some sense of right and wrong.
I hope I havn't offended you, I really mean please: do sit and think on this for a while.
-Just because somthing is leagal doesn't make it right; Just because somthing is right doesn't make it legal.
I do not feel that the situation described "Some random male ran and snatched my wallet out my hand"
would be life threatning. He obviously wanted the wallet... not to kill you.
If he pulled a gun on you it MAY be different.
Anyway, this is not the point I am trying to communicate to you.
Please change your prespective from can I draw my gun if...
To what If I have to draw my gun.
jhutto, I am not offended at all. This is good feedback. Like I said in my previous post, killing someone is the last resort. It would be the last thing on my mind. I'm not that kind of person. I want a straight answer leaving all moral to aside, by law, are you allowed to draw your weapon out to scare the guy by using Force, not Deadly Force.
am I'm able to draw my gun out and just use Force? All I want is to scare my victim so he can drop my wallet and run away. Am I'm allowed to do that?
If I am not mistaken the penal code prohibits you from displaying your gun unless you are justified in using it (I would have to double check) and anytime you pull your gun out it is considered deadly force. In addition anytime you pull your weapon you run the risk of escalating a very bad situation into a much worse situation and potentialy putting lives at risk that otherwise would not be.
I believe pulling the gun out is a bad idea. Force is beating the guy with your fists.. No pulling your gun. Don't pull your gun if your not justified and ready to use it.
As I mentioned earlier pulling a gun on somebody is a very unpleasant experience that you don't want I can assure you. My best advice is avoid it if at all possible and if you do make sure you can justify your actions because you will be held responsible for them right or wrong. We are able talk lightly about the subject here but I assure you in the "real world" it is very serious. The reason I mention any of my experience here is to stress the point that pulling a gun weather it gets used or not does change lives and must be taken seriously.
It is easier to get an airport security clearance than a CHL
NguyenVanDon wrote:
Lets use the same situation what I wrote on the first page. WITHOUT using Deadly Force, am I'm able to draw my gun out and just use Force? All I want is to scare my victim so he can drop my wallet and run away. Am I'm allowed to do that?
If you would be justified in firing your weapon, then you would be justified in displaying your weapon. Any other situation would probably be considered "brandishing" the thing.
I echo the thoughts of others (above). Think very hard about your proposed scenario: As our laws stand right now, scaring the perpetrator, when your life or the life of an innocent 3rd party is not in danger, is no justification for using your weapon
The last train out of any station will not be filled with nice people.
I just want to point out section 9.02 of the Penal Code
9.02 Justification as a Defense It is a defense to prosecution that the conduct
in question is justified under this chapter.
IANAL but to me this means that even though I may feel my actions are justified under a section of the law I will still be charged, and it will be incumbant upon me to prove that this defense is valid.
It is 12:30am at night. You're traveling from Dallas to Houston. You decided to pull over to the nearest gas station and refill. As you are refilling your gas, you see in a distant 3 males walking towards you. They have not done or said anything to you, but yet you expect they are a threat to you. They are getting closer about 25 feet away from you. By using only Force, not Deadly Force, are you allowed to draw your weapon out to just stop them from getting closer to you?
Class: No.
CHL Instructor: Yes you can.
He told the class he done this before. He has got off the hook plenty of times doing this. He told the class, if you happened to do it, call the cops right away. Report that you are a CHL Holder, its 12:30am at night, I were pumping gas, spot 3 males at a distant, they kept getting closer to you about 25 feet, I was afraid and felt threaten of my life that these 3 males going to do something so I draw my weapon out to warn them not to get any closer so I can have a chance to retrieve away from the situation.
fm2 wrote:I wonder when/if the code will catch up to identity theft problem? Your identity is not so easily recovered.
Excellent point!
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
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Even as a woman, I wouldn't want to risk it. (And we ladies have other things to think about than our wallets.)
If I saw three men approaching me at any gas station, at ANY time, and I did not know them, I would assume they were up to no good.
I wouldn't pull my gun at this point, however (if I didn't see a weapon). I would take the gas pump from my car, get into the car, lock the doors, and drive away. Once I felt safe enough to do so, I would return to pay. (I usually wouldn't need to, as I pay at the pump, and the station would already have my card number.)
Your best bet is avoidance. (It's also cheaper.)
Now if they pull a weapon, or get too close and are threatening me, its a different story.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
As I mentioned earlier pulling a gun on somebody is a very unpleasant experience that you don't want I can assure you. My best advice is avoid it if at all possible and if you do make sure you can justify your actions because you will be held responsible for them right or wrong. We are able talk lightly about the subject here but I assure you in the "real world" it is very serious. The reason I mention any of my experience here is to stress the point that pulling a gun weather it gets used or not does change lives and must be taken seriously.
