Tarrant County - posted

[Rex B]

I took the day off yesterday to spend my 10th wedding anniversary with my wife. One of our stops was at the Ft Worth Zoo. I was disappointed to see, after entering the park, that it was posted 30.06. Being city-owned, and not a school, is that a legal posting?

Later that day, I stopped at the Tarrant County courthouse - the new building that is mostly offices - where you get your vehicle tags etc. At the entrance was a sign that said "It is illegal to enter this building carrying a firearm unless you are a LEO. This applies to CHL holders as well."

Now this building has no courtrooms that I know of. It's all offices. Does anyone know on what basis they could prohibit carry?


I've seen hardly any places in Tarrant County where I could not carry, until yesterday. My wife was getting a bit testy about it, as was I, having to return to the car twice to stash my weapon.

[cyphur]

I would have carried into the County building - that was not proper notification.

As for the Zoo, as it is a government owned/leased property, that is an un-enforcable sign.


IANAL, however.

[txinvestigator]

Texas Penal Code §46.03. Places weapons prohibited.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal
knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):


(3) on the premises of any government court or offices
utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or
written authorization of the court;

The new Courthouse has offices utilized by the courts. Carry there is illegal.

[Rex B]

I would have carried into the County building - that was not proper notification.

As for the Zoo, as it is a government owned/leased property, that is an un-enforcable sign.
IANAL, however.

I agree on both counts, but I'd like some additional info. Could the zoo be considered any sort of off-site school due to all the school field trips there?
Is there any loophole they could hang their sign on?

As for the Tarrant County courthouse office building, I'll write a letter to the DA on it.

[AG-EE]

Could the zoo be considered any sort of off-site school due to all the school field trips there?

No. Not any more than Dairy Queeen could be considered that when the baseball team stops off for a burger on the way to a baseball game.

[Rex B]

I was thinking that some hospitals are considered schools if they are a teaching hospital. If that is so, it's a bit of a reach to apply it to a school.

[Rex B]

TXInvestigator, thanks for the cite.

It is my recollection that the Texas Legislature came back with a followup bill a few years ago that said in efect "You can't post a public (as in govt-owned) building unless it has an active courtroom or it's a school"

This was in response to all the cities that immediately put up 30.06 signs on every government building in sight.

[txinvestigator]

TXInvestigator, thanks for the cite.

It is my recollection that the Texas Legislature came back with a followup bill a few years ago that said in efect "You can't post a public (as in govt-owned) building unless it has an active courtroom or it's a school"

This was in response to all the cities that immediately put up 30.06 signs on every government building in sight.

There was no bill that said that. There was a provision later added in 30.06 about goovernment places, but not about courtrooms. The law specifically includes courtrooms and offices utilized by the courts.

Schools and courtrooms don't NEED 30.06 signs.

As far as the zoo, I don't know who actually owns it.

[hi-power]

As far as the zoo, I don't know who actually owns it.

From Wikipedia, so take this info with a lump of salt...but it appears that it is city-owned:

From 1909 to October 1991, the Fort Worth Zoo was owned as well as operated by the City of Fort Worth. During the city's tenure, a long-standing tradition began of collecting money from the community to purchase animals for the Zoo. In 1939, the Zoological Society (now the Fort Worth Zoological Association) formed as a nonprofit organization to help raise additional funds to purchase even more animals.

In October 1991—with the Zoo facing decreasing support, demands to replace outdated animal housing and sharp declines in attendance—the Association assumed management of the Zoo's day-to-day operations under a contract with the City of Fort Worth.

[Rex B]

Ft Worth Zoo: 30.06 posting is illegal because it's city-owned and does not fit any of the exemptions. Thus a CHL holder can ignore them

Tarrant County Administration Building is off-limits due to having offices of the court therein.

[wo5m]

Ft Worth Zoo: 30.06 posting is illegal because it's city-owned and does not fit any of the exemptions. Thus a CHL holder can ignore them

I don't mean to sound negative, but let say you do ignore it and decide to carry and you just happen to expose your weapon and end up face to face with a LEO. Do you really thing he's going to listen to the "is city-owned" excuse. As far as he is concerned its a court issue. I just don't think its worth the trouble. As far as I concerned 30.06(legal or not) = we don't what your business, go some place else. So that means no zoo for me.

[Rex B]

Well, it's like this: It was our anniversary, and the wife wanted to go to the zoo, so we by golly went to the zoo. When we got to the 30.06 sign, we had a discussion. Wife said "Just ignore, no one will ever know you are carrying". And I'm thinking "That can't be a legal posting". I decided it wasn't worth the risk and went back to the car to stash my weapon.
As far as not going back, that's no problem. It's been about 8 or 10 years since I last went.
But I may just write a letter.

Thanks for all the input, folks.

[austin]

Just another reason not to go to the Zoo.

[Rex B]

I just sent the follwing to the PR person at the Fort Worth Zoo.
If I get a reply I'll post it.


Ms Nantz

This last Wednesday I and my wife celebrated our wedding anniversary by playing "tourist", seeing the local attractions that others come here for. First on our list was the Fort Worth Zoo, and we were not disappointed. We have visited a number of zoos in the U.S. and Europe, and by far FW Zoo was the best we have seen. You folks have done a wonderful job of giving the community a top-notch facility.

My pride was tempered by the "No Firearms" 30.06 sign at the entrance. As one of 250,000 Texas CHL licensees, I have passed the same background checks as a Federal law enforcement officer. We are, as a group, the most law-abiding citizens in the state. Most of us are senior citizens. The only difference is that we have elected to take responsibility for our personal safety and that of our loved ones. Your 30.06 sign at the entrance of the Fort Worth Zoo is telling a quarter of a million Texans, model citizens all, that we are not welcome.
Note that Dallas, Houston or San Antonio zoos are not posted. The Amon carter Museum, our 2nd stop Wednesday, is not posted.

I would also point out that, by law, you cannot legally bar CHL holders from carrying on Zoo property
Section 30.06.3.e of the Texas Penal Code:
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity...
Also, the presence of schoolchildren does not make the zoo a school.

Please ask your board of directors to reconsider this policy. I would much prefer to bring my out of town visitors to the Fort Worth Zoo.

[Rex B]

Hi, Mr. B.

Thank you for taking the time to send a note. What a fun way to spend
your anniversary - and I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the Zoo. Our
staff is exceptionally dedicated to providing the utmost in animal care
and guest enjoyment, so it is really nice to hear the praise!

The Fort Worth Zoo is registered with the State of Texas as an
educational facility. As such, we are simply abiding with the law in
posting the No Firearms signage. I understand your frustration, but
sincerely hope this regulation does not prevent future visits to the
Zoo.

Again, thank you for taking the time to write.

-Lyndsay
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So, should I write the Texas AG for an opinion?