thoughts on being disarmed

[C-dub]

gigag04,

I assume since you hang out here, you aren't one to disarm everyone just for the sake of doing it. But for the guys you might work with who do disarm as SOP, do they ask every stop if they have weapons and search/clear vehicles, also as SOP?

I ask almost every stop about weapons. I also ask about cocaine, crack, methamphetamine, marijuana, unprescribed controlled drugs, large sums of money, contraband, circus clowns, and rebellious nuns. I work the hood so nearly every stop is not just a "stop." It's interdiction of dope and drunks. I've never disarmed a CHL holder during a routine traffic stop, and I don't know anyone in my dept that does as SOP. I have disarmed a CHL holder during my contact who was the suspect of a theft and was ultimately arrested, tried, and convicted for theft. I understand that the majority of the people on this board are "one of the good guys" but in the moment how do we know? You can see the arrest stats for CHL holders...they are very small, but still present. I enjoy getting to chat with CHL holders and generally don't cite them, but I never let my guard down.

I'm sorry everyone, but I could not find any reference to the question I'm about to ask about. I've looked for the past 15 minutes and cannot find anything. I must not be feeling well.

Anyway, I was wondering if any of you LEOs questioning and prolonging a stop has been altered by a case where a man was stopped for speeding and eventually arrested for felony possession of a gun? Does anyone remember the incident? A guy was stopped and cited, but the officer kept asking questions and stalling for another officer with a dog showed up to "search" the truck. He said he thought something was suspicious, but didn't know what. There was also a video that shows an officer taking the dog to the front of the truck and claims the dog alerted, but it was out of sight of the video. I think the charges were dropped and the evidence of the gun was thrown out.

[4t5]

...While you are being LEGALLY detained, the officer has specific abilities, covered in law, to ask you for certain things...

Of course, an officer can ask any question that he wants, but you do not have to answer any questions, or speak AT ALL. See Constitution, US, Amendment #5.

In the case of CHL, he/she has the lawful ability to ask you to temporarily forfeit your weapon...

GC §411.207. ... A peace officer... may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.

This has now essentially become: A peace officer...may disarm a license holder at any time to run the S/N.

[Drjfiremedic]

This is a multi-sided coin. From the officers view point if he feels the need to take you weapon from you during a traffic stop for his safty then I must question his professionalism. Those of us that have taken the time to obtain a CHL (which translates to we have a clean record as well) pose little to no danger to that officer, and they know this. At the same time civil servants, while they work in inherently dangerous profession, deserve to feel same while on the job. Now another side of this coin. Personally I do not consent to any search w/o a warrant. But I'll be more then happy to wait on a warrant if the officer is so inclined to obtain one. Thus if you offer up your weapon to the officers possession in order to secure it then you have provided an opportunity for the serial number on your firearm to be run. And while this shouldn't be a problem in most cases I know of more then one incident where a stolen firearm found it's way into unknowing hands. And with this bit of information then the officer all of a sudden has MUCH more leeway with you and your property during the stop. And as a final thought on this. Coming from some who has spent their entire career in civil service I will say this. If an officer decides that I am a legitimate threat to himself or others then I would rather have him/her do what is legally is right and detain me in cuffs until he feels comfortable with the situation then show is level of discomfort by acting inappropriately. But if I don't give the officer a reason to feel uncomfortable then a professional should have no reason to detain me.

A clean record does not always indicate a clean mind. I have seen many, rather questionable people posses a CHL from this great state. I would not like being disarmed myself. However, I am not going to fill out a hurt feelings report over it either. If I stood in the shoes of the LEO, I would do my 110% and trust my gut in these situations.

Furthermore, I am not sure which part of the country most of you guys are from, but here in this county our LEO's are proficient with just about all types of firearms. I know, having seen these skills demonstrated on the range that we all routinely frequent.

Just my two cents.

[Hoosier Daddy]

A clean record does not always indicate a clean mind. I have seen many, rather questionable people posses a CHL from this great state. I would not like being disarmed myself. However, I am not going to fill out a hurt feelings report over it either. If I stood in the shoes of the LEO, I would do my 110% and trust my gut in these situations.

I know I'm a good guy. How do I know he is? viewtopic.php?f=15&t=54824" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sjfcontrol]

2. Whatever the various constitutional opinions are, the prevailing legal opinions are that when you have a CHL and a gun in your car, your CHL "preempts" MPA, and you are subject to the laws of CHL, not MPA.

TAM -- this is not true -- unless you discount the "legal" opinion of one Charles L. Cotton...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45095&p=548496&hilit=mpa#p548496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Steve is absolutely correct, the DPS page notwithstanding. Tex. Penal Code §30.06 could not be more clear; a 30.06 sign applies only to a person who "carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code . . ." Merely possessing a CHL does not mean you are carrying under the authority of it. That occurs only when you are in a location where carrying a handgun would be illegal, if you didn't have a CHL.

However, just because you're carrying under MPA does not release you from the requirement to display your CHL to an officer if asked for ID. The display law does not say you must show CHL if carrying under it's authority, only if carrying at all.

[mgood]

?

The law allows the LEO to disarm a CHL, so that isn't anything you can do about it. .

No, it doesnt allow at will. They need to feel an unsafe condition exists.

But some officers and/or departments seem to feel an unsafe condition exists any time they encounter and armed citizen. I think that mindset is less common now than it seemed to be in the early days of CHL, but it's still around.

First time I was stopped after receiving a CHL, back in the late nineties, I was disarmed. The two Irving Police officers admired my pistol and we ended up having a friendly chat about guns. They didn't seem to be the type to worry just because someone else had a gun. So I later wondered just why they disarmed me in the first place. Made me wonder if it was department policy.

At the other end of the spectrum, I've heard an LEO say "Just don't reach for yours and I won't reach for mine."

I believe in police officers doing what they can to ensure they go home safe at the end of their shift.
But most of the time when I hear of a CHL being disarmed by an LEO, I get the impression that it's something that officer does every time he encounters a CHL. That makes me think that either he or his department or both are uncomfortable with non LEOs carrying handguns.
Lots of people carrying legally under MPA without a CHL are under no obligation to volunteer information about their weapons.
As mentioned, felons or others carrying illegally in the vehicle don't have to admit it because they can not be required to incriminate themselves.
The only people who are required to give an officer any indication of the possibility of weapons in the vehicle are those who've been through the background checks and jumped through all the other hoops. Disarming those people seems slightly (not a big deal IMO, but slightly) disrespectful to the CHL holder.
And as is often brought up, handling the weapon (maybe especially by those who are uncomfortable with guns) is far less safe than leaving it in the holster. I'd say the chance of an ND by such an officer, while slight, is probably greater than the chance of the CHL holder firing or attempting to fire his weapon during the stop. If he knew enough about guns for me to be comfortable with him handling my weapon, then he probably would know enough about guns to not be troubled by a generally law-abiding person having a pistol (assumption on my part).
So yeah, as someone else said, it's a feel-good thing that probably has as much to do with safety as checking a five-year-old's undies for explosives.

Now if there is something about the stop that makes the officer a little nervous, I have no problems with him choosing to disarm the person. I'm talking about those officers who do it as SOP for just about every CHL stop.

[speedsix]

...everytime this discussion comes up, I feel like a bug in a blender...part of me says this way...part of me says that...

...the way I've resolved it easily for me: if an LEO asks for my ID, I'll give him both ID and CHL...period...

...I haven't given up any rights...or even bent any law...and, having shown him courtesy and respect, expect the same in return...

...if he chooses to relieve me of my on-body weapons during the stop...so be it...

...I will not give him permission to search my car/truck to see whatever else may be there...

[kP380]

This is marginally off topic so I hope i won't be flamed....for those of you who were disarmed, were you also carrying a knife? If so, was the knife also removed off your person by the LEO for the duration of the encounter? It's not a big deal, but I was just curious as to anyone's experiences being disarmed - specifically for knife carry - as I'm planning to carry a knife as a backup to my primary carry gun. Thanks.