APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

Topics that do not fit anywhere else. Absolutely NO discussions of religion, race, or immigration!

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

User avatar

gigag04
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 5474
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 7:47 pm
Location: Houston

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#31

Post by gigag04 »

Moving along...


Some info I find relevant (bolded in the quotes from sources):

From the Facebook page (who knows what version of the story this is, but it has enough for me to form an opinion)
About
On April 14, 2012 Michael Paxton's best friend, Cisco, a docile Blue Healer, was gunned down by an APD officer that responded to the wrong address of a domestic disturbance call.

Description

APD officer drew his gun on me in my driveway when I came from my backyard to get something from my truck yesterday. He was responding to a domestic violence call and came to my address by mistake.

While I was at gunpoint my dog came from my backyard barking at the officer. I yelled for the officer to not shoot my dog, that he will not bite, but the officer immediately shot and killed my dog right in front of me.

I was unable to stop or restrain Cisco because I was being held at gunpoint.

Please like Cisco's page so that I can spread the word about this senseless tragedy and hopefully find justice for Cisco.

Travis County's leash law:
52.005 RESTRAINT
A. Restraint of Dogs. Pursuant to Section 826.014 of Chapter 826, Travis County hereby requires that:
1. It is the responsibility of each Owner to effectively restrain the Owner's dog, which means the dog must either be kept securely on the Owner's property so that the dog remains on the Owner's property or, if not on the Owner's property, on a leash of a length that will allow for the direct control of the dog by the Owner or the person in control of the dog (or otherwise contained, such as in a car, in a crate, etc.) . The ACA may require an Owner to increase the effectiveness of the restraint if the type of restraint used by the Owner is shown not to be effective, as determined by the ACA. A person keeping a dog on a leash shall keep the dog under control at all times. This leash requirement does not apply in portions of public parks officially designated as no-restraint areas (unless the dog has been determined, pursuant to these Rules, to be a Dangerous Dog, in which case a leash is required even in designated no-restraint areas); however, the Owner must still maintain reasonable control over the dog at all times.
In the front yard, not on a leash = dog is no longer prevented from leaving the owner's property...in violation of the law. Domestic disturbances are in fact, statistically, the most dangerous call to which LE responds...I don't find it unreasonable to deploy any form of weapon if one believes he or she has reason to do so.

The way I read the FB story - the dog owner came from back yard to front through a gate (assumption on my part, yes) to go to his truck. The dog owner did not secure gate or dog prior to leaving the back yard. The dog gets loose and makes aggressive movement towards the officer.

When this happened with me, the owner's dog came running full sprint at me barking and growling. Had I not shot and killed that dog, I would've been bit by a stranger's dog. I find this unacceptable as I find any value or merit in taking a dog bite. I've done it plenty of times with the K-9 guys, and it hurts even with the dog suit on.

In the OP's post - we have no information as to what exactly "my dog came from my backyard barking at the officer" but that could accurately describe the same situation in which I shot a dog. With this in my mind, I would add that insufficient information is included at this point to criticize the officer, while sufficient information is presented to show a leash law was violated.

And yes - I will act against any unrestrained, loose, and aggressive animal that presents a clear threat to me or someone else without hesitation.

Docile Blue Heeler...nice kid in a hoodie....such information after the fact is not available at the time of the threat.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
User avatar

Topic author
nyj
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 19
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:30 pm
Location: Austin

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#32

Post by nyj »

Thanks for those who have supported us so far. We have made national news. NY times and ABC news.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... _multiline" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am no cop basher, and completely understand the stress that the officer could have been under, but it doesn't make what happened OK. Put yourself in the dog owners shoes...you come outside and see a cop pointing a gun at you, your loyal dog comes to stand by your side and gets shot and killed.
User avatar

sjfcontrol
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 11
Posts: 6267
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:14 am
Location: Flint, TX

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#33

Post by sjfcontrol »

Gigag04

Playing devil's advocate here...

The law you quoted says that the dog must be "effectively" restrained so that it remains on the property. Apparently it DID remain on the property. Presumably the dog could have been trained not to leave it, or perhaps there's "invisible fencing" (an electronic device to train dogs to remain within areas without any visible fencing necessary). Anyway, it would seem to me that the owner could not be guilty of any crime until the dog actually left the owner's property. Not simply that it apparently "could have" left. In fact, Would it make a difference if the front yard had been fenced, and the officer was within the fence? I doubt it would have changed the outcome any.

I am not arguing about the officer's need for safety, just the argument that the owner was breaking the law.

An unfortunate occurrence all around.
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target."
Never Forget. Image

Carry-a-Kimber
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:58 am
Location: Harris County

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#34

Post by Carry-a-Kimber »

And officers responding to the wrong address seem to be the most dangerous calls for innocent people.
The LEO community can circle the wagons all they want but this officer made several mistakes and needs to pay for them with his badge.
User avatar

gigag04
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 5474
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 7:47 pm
Location: Houston

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#35

Post by gigag04 »

Please don't read my posts as being against the owner or blaming him. I also don't fault the officer. It's just one of those bad situations where everybody looses...even if they acted reasonably. I hope the city compensates him without punishing the officer (at this point). Even the FB video doesn't give me enough of a viewpoint to criticize either party much, other than the petty leash law...which only becomes an issue after the fact.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison

zero4o3
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#36

Post by zero4o3 »

thenick_ttu wrote:
gigag04 wrote:I've shot and killed one dog and pepper sprayed more than I can count while on the job. Not the highlight of my work, but I've seen enough dog bites to stop the threat of a dog first and ask questions later. If simple leash laws are followed by owners, this becomes a non-issue.

I shouldn't have to take a bite from a strangers dog before defending myself. That's just silly.

Also...Using a TASER on a dog...really? Have you deployed one before? It's a one shot deal and a much smaller target than a human torso. You can borrow mine and have a few tries under stress if you like. I'll go for my pistol...
1) Shoot first, "ask questions later" -- that's always a comforting policy for our local law enforcement to have, whom are supposed to protect us, not shoot first, "ask questions later." :banghead:
2) Follow leash laws... expect leash laws weren't applicable in this situation because the dog was on his own property.
3) A stranger who is being held at gun point, on his own property, by a cop that wouldn't even let him restrain his dog.

it sounds like you might be the cop in question in this story? at the very least, it sounds like you're part of the problem of excessive police force when not required. I hope to God you're not a cop anywhere around North DFW

with all "due" respect

I disagree completly, I dont think shooting the dog was the right approach, but thats not the real issue here. Had the officer in question been at the correct house, or had he not pulled a gun on the dog owner this wouldnt have happened and those are the to issues that should be looked into.

I should clarify that to say, in the situation the officer ended up in, shooting the dog may have been the only option for him but that being said I dont think he should have been in that situation in the first place from what we have so far on the story
Please don't read my posts as being against the owner or blaming him. I also don't fault the officer. It's just one of those bad situations where everybody looses...even if they acted reasonably.
I imagine, that being up against 1 person and a dog is probably worse on the nerves then being up against 2 people, feel free to correct me if im wrong.
User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 17
Posts: 13562
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#37

Post by C-dub »

sjfcontrol wrote:Gigag04

Playing devil's advocate here...

The law you quoted says that the dog must be "effectively" restrained so that it remains on the property. Apparently it DID remain on the property. Presumably the dog could have been trained not to leave it, or perhaps there's "invisible fencing" (an electronic device to train dogs to remain within areas without any visible fencing necessary). Anyway, it would seem to me that the owner could not be guilty of any crime until the dog actually left the owner's property. Not simply that it apparently "could have" left. In fact, Would it make a difference if the front yard had been fenced, and the officer was within the fence? I doubt it would have changed the outcome any.

I am not arguing about the officer's need for safety, just the argument that the owner was breaking the law.

An unfortunate occurrence all around.
This is certainly a possibility, but the officer had no way of knowing that. A very very low percentage of people have enough control over their dogs to be able to restrain them without the aid of a leash.

IMHO, even if he hadn't already had his gun drawn it would have probably come out immediately and probably still have shot the dog. Had the officer been at the correct house and the same thing happened would we even be talking about this? I don't think so. Same thing with that whole mess down in Florida. If Mr. Martin and been killed by another black person no one outside of Florida probably would have ever hears about it. The main reason this is a big deal is because he went to the wrong house. The other biggest reason is because the dog was not on a leash. My dogs are very well trained and I am 99.9% positive I would have had enough control over either one of them to demonstrate that without a leash, but still don't take them out without a leash. Even when just going from the house or yard to the truck. You just never know what's going to happen.

This whole incident goes back to one of my biggest fears, that of an officer or a bunch of officers showing up at my house by mistake.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
User avatar

Topic author
nyj
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 19
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:30 pm
Location: Austin

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#38

Post by nyj »

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fox at 9 and KVUE at 6 tonight
User avatar

sjfcontrol
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 11
Posts: 6267
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:14 am
Location: Flint, TX

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#39

Post by sjfcontrol »

C-dub wrote: This is certainly a possibility, but the officer had no way of knowing that. A very very low percentage of people have enough control over their dogs to be able to restrain them without the aid of a leash.
Well, again that's not my point. Let's separate this from this incident, and look at a hypothetical situation. Let's say I am sitting on my front porch in my favorite rocking chair, with my faithful companion sitting beside me ( my dog, not my wife ;-) ) the dog is not on a leash, and the front yard is not fenced. The dog is totally unrestrained, but totally calm. Could an officer drive by, see my peaceful dog, and give me a ticket because the dog "could" leave the property, even though he hasn't?

Or would it be necessary for the dog to actually leave the property before I've violated the law?

My interpretation of the law is the latter.
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target."
Never Forget. Image
User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 17
Posts: 13562
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#40

Post by C-dub »

sjfcontrol wrote: Well, again that's not my point. Let's separate this from this incident, and look at a hypothetical situation. Let's say I am sitting on my front porch in my favorite rocking chair, with my faithful companion sitting beside me ( my dog, not my wife ;-) ) the dog is not on a leash, and the front yard is not fenced. The dog is totally unrestrained, but totally calm. Could an officer drive by, see my peaceful dog, and give me a ticket because the dog "could" leave the property, even though he hasn't?
I think the answer is yes. I'll look for it, but in your scenario your dog is considered "at large" and you could get a citation. I doubt an officer would do it, though. They MIGHT call animal control and have them cite you, but most won't even bother unless there is a complaint from someone else about your dog. And even then it will likely be like an officer showing up to one of us being on someone's property with a 30.06 sign. The officer, if they make contact with you at all, will probably ask you to either put a leash on your dog or put them inside. Then if you refuse you would get the citation.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#41

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

nyj wrote:Thanks for those who have supported us so far.
Who is "us?"

Chas.
User avatar

Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#42

Post by Oldgringo »

This whole story smells as bad, with oddly curious similarities, as the much ballyhooed Sanford, FL incident. Peeyu!

Carry-a-Kimber
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:58 am
Location: Harris County

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#43

Post by Carry-a-Kimber »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
nyj wrote:Thanks for those who have supported us so far.
Who is "us?"

Chas.
I think NYJ is referring to himself and his buddy who's dog was shot.
User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 17
Posts: 13562
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#44

Post by C-dub »

At large and running at large means off of and outside of the premises of the owner and not under the immediate control of the owner or other person by use of a collar and leash, and shall apply to all animals on the premises of the owner which are not kept secured by an adequate fence or which are not kept secured by a chain attached to the animals in a humane manner sufficient to prevent the animals from running at large.
This is the definition of "at large" from my city's ordinances. It is probably very similar in most other cities. It may not be right, but that's what it says. Notice it does not take into account how much training a dog has had or the control one is able to demonstrate over their dog.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
User avatar

Topic author
nyj
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 19
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:30 pm
Location: Austin

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#45

Post by nyj »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
nyj wrote:Thanks for those who have supported us so far.
Who is "us?"

Chas.
"us" are the friends of Michael, and myself and one of Michael's closest friends, whom are running the facebook page. I consider this a campaign now, and "us" can be everyone standing behind supporting some sort of action to be done. Does it matter?
Locked

Return to “Off-Topic”