Stand Your Ground in Danger

[VMI77]

Trayvon supporters in the news: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=203972

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, Fla. -

North Miami Beach police said surveillance video shows dozens of high school students demonstrating in the Trayvon Martin case Friday ransacking a Walgreens store.

The incident occurred during a walkout from North Miami Beach Senior High School in support of Martin, 17, who was fatally shot in Sanford.

http://lancasteronline.com/article/loca ... z1qLcboEtb

A Millersville University student is charged with severely beating his ex-girlfriend and kidnapping her from a campus dormitory this weekend.

Akeem M. Johnson, 24, punched the victim at least 10 times Saturday morning before forcing her from her room at Burrowes Hall and into his car, according to a police affidavit.

On Friday night, he stood prominently at an on-campus rally regarding the death of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, holding a sign saying, "I am Trayvon Martin."

http://www.ajc.com/news/bond-set-for-new-1398575.html

Oh, and finally you remember the New Black Panther guy who offered a $10,000 "reward" for the unlawful kidnapping of Zimmerman on national television? He was busted for allegedlybeing a felon in possession of a firearm in Georgia yesterday.

Incidentally, his bond was set at.... wait for it..... $10,000.

All the anti-gunners going to be shouting out about his low bail, asking why is isn't still in jail, after all, he's a FELON with a gun....aren't the lefties supposed to be against criminals with guns? We know better --they don't mind if thugs have guns, it's US they don't want being able to defend ourselves from thugs.

[ScooterSissy]

Trayvon supporters in the news: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=203972
...
http://lancasteronline.com/article/loca ... z1qLcboEtb

A Millersville University student is charged with severely beating his ex-girlfriend and kidnapping her from a campus dormitory this weekend.

Akeem M. Johnson, 24, punched the victim at least 10 times Saturday morning before forcing her from her room at Burrowes Hall and into his car, according to a police affidavit.

On Friday night, he stood prominently at an on-campus rally regarding the death of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, holding a sign saying, "I am Trayvon Martin."

...

Of course he too was part of the "I Am Trayvon" crowd. Just like Trayvon, he was "unarmed".

[The Annoyed Man]

About Zimmerman: unfortunately for him, I think any semblance of a normal life going forward is probably impossible. Probably the best thing that could happen to him right now is to get indicted and convicted, spend a few years in the big house, get out early for good behavior, and hope that by then nobody will remember this incident. That way he might have a chance at a normal life. He's still young, only 28. If, however, he gets acquitted, adios normal life forever. People will know who he is, he will get recognized, and there are always people out there willing to do violence if they feel the justice system didn't do its job. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's reality. He'll always have to look over his shoulder for as long as he's alive. He would become the OJ of central FL (and I'm not talking about the delicious FL orange juice).

ARE YOU SERIOUS???!!!????

Are you even interested in justice? Please....whatever you do, don't you ever speak in my defense about anything, even if you agree with me. I don't need that kind of friends

[Keith B]

OK folks. This thread is getting way to personal. I will make a suggestion that everyone drop the discussion for now and cool your jets. If it continues on the downward spiral, then it will be locked.

[sugar land dave]

How did we get to drug use and drinking?

and did someone actually say or imply that everyone has done it?

I am getting a little on in years, but I have never smoked anything, and I cannot drink alcohol, so I am no expert on those actions, but everyone? I feel that might be a bit of a stretch.

On topic, I don't think SYG is in trouble beyond saving.

[ScooterSissy]

How did we get to drug use and drinking?

and did someone actually say or imply that everyone has done it?
...

I'm new here, but this was the quote in this thread(I highlighted the most relevant part):

Two more things:

1. The reason Martin was suspended from school is irrelevant. I see some people trying to kill Martin's character and, in effect, make his shooting death justified by the fact that he got in trouble as a teenager. That's wrong. So he got suspended for an empty baggy with marijuana residue. How many of the forum members here can claim they've never, EVER, smoked some pot? In high school? Come on. Is it really a big deal? I know several doctors and lawyers who were proverbial potheads in high school, yet somehow are able to be extremely productive members of society. Including me. I'm a college educated white male, I pay may taxes, and guess what, I've smoked pot in the past. Shoot me. It's irrelevant to the case.
...

[mamabearCali]

On topic: I think we just have to...... wait for it......Stand our Ground!

[tommyg]

Like I said in a previous post. None of us knows what happened.
All we are gitting is info from the news media they are more
interested in selling news papers than anything else. Please
leave it for courts and real investigators to get to the bottom of this.
Continuing to stir this up will only make it worse for everyone.
Cooler heads need to prevail in this matter please be cool. Making this
worse is a

[v-rog]

I make a post and the thread is in danger of being locked ....Can I go for thread lock #3 :

OK folks. This thread is getting way to personal. I will make a suggestion that everyone drop the discussion for now and cool your jets. If it continues on the downward spiral, then it will be locked.

[74novaman]

I make a post and the thread is in danger of being locked ....Can I go for thread lock #3 :

OK folks. This thread is getting way to personal. I will make a suggestion that everyone drop the discussion for now and cool your jets. If it continues on the downward spiral, then it will be locked.

Don't worry, there were some *ahem* interesting *ahem* personal attacks and rants earlier in the thread.

I don't think its your fault.

[smoothoperator]

IBTL and load

[i8godzilla]

Did someone actually imply that every forum member had smoke marijuana at some point? Because I, for one, have NOT...I've smoked way too many tobacco cigarettes (before I quit a few months ago) and I've drank my fair share of cold beers and other alcoholic concoctions during my time with the USAF...but I have, once again, NEVER smoked marijuana nor have I ever taken any other illegal drugs, not even once, not even "just to try it". And I have no desire to start.

The use of marijuana, and it appears to be USE in this case, not merely experimentation, shows indifference to the law. People who are indifferent to one law like this are usually indifferent to others as well. There appears to be some indication that he SOLD marijuana, and if so, that is well beyond the indifference of the casual marijuana smoker, and rises to the level of contempt for the law. And "dealing" puts a person in another class of lawbreakers, since it means interacting with those heavily involved with the criminal element, and that suggests an attitude that is comfortable with inviting trouble --which in turns suggests a willingness to do violence. Who expects dealing illegal drugs to be a non-violent activity? Certainly not someone who advertises that he has "no limits."

I'm against the WOD and I think the drug laws and the way they are enforced not only cause more problems than they solve, but have eroded Constitutional protection for all of us. But I don't use or sell drugs because it's illegal. In fact, I consciously strive to obey the law, even the laws I don't agree with.

Does this include speeders, those that do not come to a complete stop, or refuse to use turn signals? Does buying a radar detector rise to the level of contempt? Just trying to determine where the line is. Funny how the 18th Amendment made many otherwise law abiding citizens criminals overnight and a few short year later the 21st Amendment restored them back to law abiding citizens.

[lbuehler325]

Maybe I missed this in the past 17 pages of comments, but I think Stand Your Ground is not a valid issue in this case. What Zimmerman did was or wasn't justifiable homicide. To be justifiable, three main qualifiers must be met. 1. Zimmerman must have legally been allowed to be at the location of the incident, 2. Zimmerman must have reasonably been in imminent fear for for his life (or at least severe injury), and 3. Zimmerman must not have caused or instigated the situation. If any of these three are not satisfied beyond a reasonable level, most folks in his position should expect themselves to have the facts go to a grand jury at the minimum. If #3 is not satisfied (which seems to be the case from what is publicly known), then it is fair to expect his actions to come under scrutiny. This doesn't mean he was not justified. It simply means, he would have to defend his actions. With that said, "Stand Your Ground" wouldn't make an unjustified use of deadly force legal. If that were the case, any and every bully could start fights, and then shoot their victims once the victim starts fighting back. This is absurd, but that is essentially what the prohibitionists are implying. They do not understand the law. Whether Zimmerman was justified or not would not be influenced by a SYG statute.

Character assessments of either party are also not very helpful in this situation. Was Martin a "thug"? It shouldn't matter! Question is, was his shooting justified, and that has nothing to do with weather he was using/distributing drugs. Since when does a minor's drug use warrant death? Was Zimmerman a "wannabe cop" with a history of assault overstepping his bounds? History speaks to character, but not to the facts of that night. The proper question is who acted illegally that night? If Zimmerman acted improperly (lets not forget that a 911 dispatcher saying "don't follow" is hardly a lawful order), I would be just as concerned about the local PD for not doing a proper investigation and potentially letting a killer, or at least a demonstrated recklessly irresponsible CHL holder, walk away scott free.

[03Lightningrocks]

How did we get to drug use and drinking?

and did someone actually say or imply that everyone has done it?

I am getting a little on in years, but I have never smoked anything, and I cannot drink alcohol, so I am no expert on those actions, but everyone? I feel that might be a bit of a stretch.

On topic, I don't think SYG is in trouble beyond saving.

I am getting on in years and as a troubled teen tried about every drug known to man kind. Smoking pot never made me do anything other than laugh, eat everything in the house and fall asleep. It sure never made me or anyone else I ever saw stoned violent. Now drinking is a different story. I wish I had a nickel for every time I watched some redneck get all tough guy after drinking two beers. This thread is way too long to read every post, but some story about finding weed in this guys back pack does not make me think he is a bad guy in the slightest. It is also nothing more than the local cops trying to divert from the real issue. On what authority was Zimmerman donning his bat cape?

What this story does tell me is that armed watchmen and security guards are dangerous and don't have the proper training to be playing batman. Neither do the majority of us with a CHL. Don't chase me down and act like it is self defense when I clock you. The only one I won't go ninja on is a police officer. Security guards and neighborhood batmans are fair game. This is looking bad for the shooter. He never had any business chasing that kid down!

We are missing the point if we worry about the issue of whether Martin was a thug or not. The issue is that the shooter had no business acting as a cop. He didn't witness the kid committing any crime anyway! Are we really going to pretend this was a good shoot?

[jmra]

How did we get to drug use and drinking?

and did someone actually say or imply that everyone has done it?

I am getting a little on in years, but I have never smoked anything, and I cannot drink alcohol, so I am no expert on those actions, but everyone? I feel that might be a bit of a stretch.

On topic, I don't think SYG is in trouble beyond saving.

I am getting on in years and as a troubled teen tried about every drug known to man kind. Smoking pot never made me do anything other than laugh, eat everything in the house and fall asleep. It sure never made me or anyone else I ever saw stoned violent. Now drinking is a different story. I wish I had a nickel for every time I watched some redneck get all tough guy after drinking two beers. This thread is way too long to read every post, but some story about finding weed in this guys back pack does not make me think he is a bad guy in the slightest. It is also nothing more than the local cops trying to divert from the real issue. On what authority was Zimmerman donning his bat cape?

What this story does tell me is that armed watchmen and security guards are dangerous and don't have the proper training to be playing batman. Neither do the majority of us with a CHL. Don't chase me down and act like it is self defense when I clock you. The only one I won't go ninja on is a police officer. Security guards and neighborhood batmans are fair game. This is looking bad for the shooter. He never had any business chasing that kid down!

We are missing the point if we worry about the issue of whether Martin was a thug or not. The issue is that the shooter had no business acting as a cop. He didn't witness the kid committing any crime anyway! Are we really going to pretend this was a good shoot?

I think you are missing some very important information and making some large assumptions. Zimmerman was not on watch, he was going to the store. According to the physical evidence and eye witness accounts Zimmerman did not confront Martin and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked from behind. He was being beaten (nose was broken and Martin was repeatedly smashing his head against the sidewalk). The only witness to the beating believed that Zimmerman was in enough danger that he ran to his cell phone to call 911. I guess you believe that since Zimmerman got out of his car and followed Martin at a distance in order to give the police a better discription that he should have let Martin continue to smash his head until he was dead instead of defending himself.
The facts in this case are simple. If Zimmerman did confront Martin (it appears that he did not) he retreated back toward his vehicle before being attacked. Stand your ground does not apply because he retreated and none of Zimmerman actions prior to retreating (none of which were illegal) are relevant once he retreated. Unless more evidence comes to light, Zimmermans account, eye witnesses, and physical evidence all support self-defense.