Just wow. First of all, I haven't defended Zimmerman. I have consistently said—and so have others—that we should refrain from condemning him until we know exactly what happened. That is a darn sight different than defending him. And, as more and more evidence comes to light, the more it looks like it might have been a legitimate use of force. Now, maybe he's guilty as heck, maybe not. It is arguable that he made a poor exercise of judgement by tailing Martin after the police dispatcher told him they would prefer he didn't.....but that's not actually an arrest-able offense. We DO know that the initial story as reported by the lamestream media is being spun in a way having nothing to do with truth.matriculated wrote:There is a fundamental thing that many posters in this forum seem to misunderstand: The more you defend Zimmerman and his actions, the more you endanger your own 2nd Amendment rights and self defense rights. It may feel right to defend Zimmerman, after all he's a CHL, making him "one of us." By defending Zimmerman, it may feel as if you're defending 2nd Amd. and self-defense rights. But back to reality, when it comes to practical matters, Zimmerman getting off without penalties will put the Stand Your Ground law in danger in various states, including FL if and when the legislature turns Democratic. Somebody has already posted something about Georgia looking at their laws. This is the type of ammo that the anti-self-defense people can only dream of. There is clearly now a push to reconsider, meaning repeal or weaken, the Stand Your Ground law, and all those coming to the aid of Zimmerman are aiding that push. Congratulations. Your over-zealousness may cost you your own rights.
Is it overzealous to seek after truth? I don't think so. As was once said, extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Do you really think that accepting a lie, and agreeing to the imprisonment of an innocent man is OK if it will pacify gun grabbers, all in the name of keeping/losing a right? What is that right actually worth to you if you're willing to put an innocent man behind bars just to preserve that right for yourself? Do you really think that gun grabbers will ever abandon their goals regardless of the outcome of this case? That is not a moral position with which I am comfortable.
Please note: I am NOT saying that Zimmerman is innocent. I'm saying we DON'T KNOW if he's innocent or guilty. I'm saying that, until we know, we shouldn't pile on to the leftist media's attempt to frame a man. The path you are advocating is to surrender the narrative to a media and political left which is hostile to our gun rights. We have had our gun rights under constant assault for the past 50+ years exactly because we always surrender the narrative to the left. One way to preserve our rights to to prevent their further erosion is the sieze back control of the narrative. Here is what that means:
When a commie pinko gun grabber says this is about the eeeeevil Stand Your Ground laws, say, "no, it isn't. Eyewitnesses have Zimmerman retreating back to his vehicle when he was assaulted from behind by Martin. That is most certainly NOT a stand your ground action. He was retreating." Then, go on to explain the actual meaning of "Stand Your Ground," that it means that you have the right to defend yourself in any place where you have a right to be. Stand your ground may not apply for you inside my home because you don't have a right to be in my home, but it most certainly applies for you on the sidewalk in front of my home...where you most certainly have the right to be. In any case, Zimmerman was not standing his ground when he was assaulted. He was retreating according to at least one eyewitness, so this is not about "stand your ground;" it's about something else.
When a commie pinko gun grabber says that Zimmerman is a racist, ask him how that can be for a man whose best friend is black, and who along with his wife mentors black children.....one of whose mothers has stated that she trusted Zimmerman implicitly.
When a commie pinko gun grabber says that Zimmerman was just looking for a chance to shoot a black kid, ask him why it is then that Zimmerman has been devastated and in tears for weeks after the shooting because he feels so bad about it.
When a commie pinko gun grabber says that it is immoral to stand your ground when attacked, ask him if he thinks it is immoral for an organization of black racists to distribute fliers offering a $10,000 reward for the apprehension of Zimmerman....DEAD or alive. Ask him if it is morally superior for Zimmerman and his family to live in hiding because of the lynch mob being stoked by the media. Ask him if it was moral for someone to post Zimmerman's address on his facebook page to make it easier for people to track him down. Ask him if he will condemn Zimmerman's killer(s) when someone decides to collect that $10K reward.
I mean, I could go on and on. And again........this is not about Zimmerman. This is about seizing control of the narrative—partly to defend our rights, and partly to ensure that a possibly innocent man gets a fair trial. But we sure as heck should not be silent and let a possibly innocent man hang just because you don't want to get the commie pinko gun grabbers all worked up. They're already worked up, and they been worked up for years, and they'll continue to be worked up long after all of this blows over. They are worked up every single day because they are certain that somewhere, some conservative gun owners is enjoying a guilt free life instead of wringing his hands over whether or not he has offended some repressive gun-grabbing fascist.
So I reject your assertion. I don't really care if Martin was a model student or not, or a football player or not, or a sweet kid or a thug. What I care about is that Zimmerman had a bloody nose, a cut eye, a laceration on the back of his head, and grass stains and moisture from the grass on the back of his clothes. I care that an eyewitness says that he saw Zimmerman on the ground, on his back, screaming for help, while Martin beat him up. Which that Martin had not been shot, but I also know that in the exact same circumstances, I might well have shot him too. If I am on my back, after having been attacked from behind, and my attacker is on top of me and beating the snot out of me, this is no longer about standing my ground; it is about surviving a brutal attack.
Furthermore, there is one issue of Martin's character that will come out at trial and it will be admissible; and that is that he was known according to some witnesses to have a quick and unstable temper. IF that is true.....IF.....then it may be that he is the guilty party and Zimmerman is the victim here.
AGAIN. WE. DON'T. KNOW. FOR. CERTAIN. Here's what we DO know. Any one of us could conceivably find ourselves in a similar situation. The outcome may be similar. The bottom line is that if we have a right to be somewhere, we have a right to defend ourselves in that place if necessary. That's all it means. People who argue against that are the same people who think that a woman found raped and dead in an alley somewhere, strangled with her own pantyhose is somehow more noble than that woman's would-be rapist being found dead in the same alley with two in the chest and one in the head. Any argument which starts with the premise that the prospective victim must first flee, and then consent to be physically harmed before they can defend themselves is an immoral argument because it also starts with the premise that the criminal has more rights than the victim.
So it would be better that Zimmerman go to prison even if he is innocent rather than to risk providing ammo to gun-grabbers......who are going to come after your guns regardless of what happens with Zimmerman? Please. I am seriously beginning to question your own commitment to gun rights, and your commitment to justice if it turns out that Zimmerman is innocent. If you would rather that an innocent man go to prison rather than risk the ire of gun grabbers, then you are holding an immoral position.matriculated wrote:Well, #1 what is my premise, in your opinion? I can't respond if I don't know exactly what you're rejecting. And if you're Zimmerman's defender, like it or not, whatever it may feel like to you, you ARE hurting 2A and self defense rights. Because Zimmerman getting off will be ammo that anti-self-defense people will be able to use for a very long time, and persuade many people on the fence that SYG laws are excessive in their permissiveness.
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