Carry in a Texas State Park?

[CC Italian]

Here is your answer

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fi ... /tawakoni/

Reservoir Controlling Authority
Sabine River Authority of Texas

The no firearms sign has no bearing on a chl holder unless COE. It is not COE

[RPB]

Here is your answer

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fi ... /tawakoni/

Reservoir Controlling Authority
Sabine River Authority of Texas

The no firearms sign has no bearing on a chl holder unless COE. It is not COE

The Authority General Office is the administrative center for the Sabine River Authority of Texas

CHLs can carry there.
http://www.sratx.org/basin/recreation.a ... site&ID=24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lake Tawakoni
Owner Sabine River Authority of Texas

Tpwd is the best place to check first

MOST parks, city/county/State/Federal are posted with "NO FIREARMS" signs ... like most grocery stores, liquer stores/restaurants/Convenience stores/Walgreens have the "unlicensed carry prohibited signs" ... those don't apply to us licensees carrying the type of handgun you are licensed to carry .... however, a CHL doesn't mean you may carry a rifle/shotgun/long gun into a no firearms posted park..

[Bullwhip]

You can carry in the state park as long as the land under your feet is not COE property. Not sure where the COE boundary for the lake and the state boundary for the park start and stop. I believe there are usually markers every so often along the boundary line showing the Corp property line.

Big dispute up in NE TX about COE land around Wright Patman. Nobody seems to know where the boundaries are. There are some backwoods folks who still claim a lot of COE land is theirs, and even COE don't know for sure. Almost no markers to speak of.

I just know that if I'm hunting public land that two tooth bubba thinks is his, I'm going to be carrying more than just a shotgun with a plug.

[kjolly]

If you see Jeremy Wade on the bank fishing (River Monsters), I would not go in swimming and would go back for the gun.

[barnes69]

Look guy's there was not mention in the Texas CHL law that states anything regarding ACOE owned property. In my interperation the bottom line is this, by state law either the big red 51% or the 30.06 sign has to be displayed at all entrances to the "premises" in order to notify and prohibit a Texas CHL holder from carrying a concealed weapon on the "premises", otherwise (again my interperation of the law) you legally have the right. Please educate me if I have anyway missed something or miss-represented any of the above information.

[tornado]

COE is part of the federal government. Federal firearm prohibitions still trump your state CHL, as far as the feds are concerned.

http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/employ ... cfm?Id=789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RAM4171]

so how do we know when we instantaneously transform from being a law abiding, fully vetted, FBI background checked, and licensed good guy into a federally recognized felon?

[RPB]

so how do we know when we instantaneously transform from being a law abiding, fully vetted, FBI background checked, and licensed good guy into a federally recognized felon?

Nobody seems to know where the boundaries are. .

I asked a lady in the Georgetown COE office ... When I'm kayaking down the San Bernard river controlled by the Brazos River Authority of the State of Texas, and at some point just before entering lake ____ it becomes Army Corps waters, what color is the boundary line that is painted on the water so I know not to cross it, and if there is none, what are the GPS coordinates, surely you would know the GPS coordinates of your boundaries?

They don't.

Keith B is right though, The Georgetown lady said there are theoretical markers, she doesn't know where they are, but was told that they are often brass, but none in the water that anyone knows of.

[Scott in Houston]

COE is part of the federal government. Federal firearm prohibitions still trump your state CHL, as far as the feds are concerned.

http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/employ ... cfm?Id=789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I definitely understand the Fed trumping State law, but who will arrest you? Would TX DPS arrest for a Federal violation?
Are there Federal Game Wardens? If not, would a Texas Warden arrest for a Federal violation when you are legal in the eyes of the state??
What Federal officer is on a COE property with the authority?

[couzin]

I definitely understand the Fed trumping State law, but who will arrest you? Would TX DPS arrest for a Federal violation?
Are there Federal Game Wardens? If not, would a Texas Warden arrest for a Federal violation when you are legal in the eyes of the state??
What Federal officer is on a COE property with the authority?

A little Federal/US Army Corps of Engineers 101. USACE (federally-owned) property uses Rangers. USACE Rangers have citation authority just like regular police. However, USACE Rangers have no authority to pursue, detain, search or arrest. BUT - the Operating District has cooperating agreements with local and State law enforcement to respond and conduct an arrest if needed (includes game wardens). Also - the USACE Rangers can utilize the Federal Law Enforcement arrest and investigation capabilities on the US Forest Service, Park Service, FBI, Fish and Wildlife, US Army Military Police, etc. If local law enforcement is used to detain, search, or arrest, it is not their enforcing of Federal law - it is assisting an authorized agent of the US Government in the enforcement and apprehension (if needed) of violators. The USACE Ranger and/or the Federal Law Enforcement agent would prepare the citation and provide it to the US District Attorney. The US DA will then decide if Federal charges will be made. Federal court is next.

That having been said (to answer your original question) - the likelihood of a USACE Ranger discovering a concealed weapon (still illegal on Fed USACE property you understand) is unlikely - unless there is brandishing, or shooting, or some other stunt that probably would get you arrested just about anywhere.

I have confidence the USACE Regulation will be changed - just give them the time.

[Scott in Houston]

Great info!! Thanks!!

[CrosstimbersOkie]

Neither the Corps of Engineers nor any other federal agency can prohibit firearms on Corps lakes provided possession is in accordance with the laws of the state in which the lake is located. This is because the Corps does not own the water in navigable waterways. It is held in trust by the state for the public which means that state laws apply. That does not prohibit the Corps from owning land adjacent to the lake/river and prohibiting or regulating firearms there. So Corps campgrounds and boat ramps are off-limits. But the Corps isn't the only organization that has campgrounds and boat ramps.

http://www.adventuresports.com/river/no ... o-owns.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"1. Which rivers are owned by the public?

The U.S. Supreme Court has held that the bed and banks under all rivers, lakes, and streams that are navigable, for title purposes, are owned by the states, held in trust for the public. Title in this context means ownership. This public-trust ownership extends up to the ordinary high water line, (or ordinary high water mark,) encompassing what is commonly referred to as the submerged and submersible land, as opposed to the upland. This type of navigability is called title navigability.

2. How did the public come to own these rivers and lands?

The Supreme Court has held that navigable rivers, lakes, and streams have been public since ancient times in all civilized societies, and that in colonial America they were held for the public by the King of England. When the original thirteen states took sovereignty of their land from the British after the American Revolution, those states became owners of the land underlying navigable waters. States that subsequently entered the Union have the same ownership rights as the original thirteen states under the Equal Footing Doctrine, and became owners of the land underlying navigable waters as of the date of statehood."

"15. Can states sell or give away rivers, or riverside land?

Federal courts have held that the state does not simply own the river and the riverside land, it holds it "in trust for the public." These court decisions, taken together, are known as the Public Trust Doctrine. The state holds the resources in trust for the benefit of all the people. The general public has a right to fully enjoy these resources for a wide variety of public uses including navigation, recreation, and fisheries. The state cannot divest itself of these public-trust ownership.

The state can sell or lease pieces of land along a river, such as for public or private docks, etc., but not the whole river. Such transactions must be beneficial for use of the waterway. They cannot interfere with public use of the overall waterway."

[ldj1002]

It is ask

"I definitely understand the Fed trumping State law, but who will arrest you? Would TX DPS arrest for a Federal violation?
Are there Federal Game Wardens? If not, would a Texas Warden arrest for a Federal violation when you are legal in the eyes of the state??
What Federal officer is on a COE property with the authority?"

If anyone thinks this is too political, then just get it deleted.

Our present administration has said that states can't enforce federal laws IE immigration laws. So taking that, if not lying as usual, the only person who could arrest you would be a federal law officer.

[CrosstimbersOkie]

Yes. Local and state officers can arrest for federal violations. If that were not so, there would be very few people in federal prisons for drug convictions. The overwhelming majority of federal drug convictions are the results of arrests by state and local officers. In fact, the majority of federal drug task forces are composed of state and local officers who are detailed to those programs.

But, they can only, or are supposed to only be able to arrest you for a violation of law. If you are armed on Lake Texoma and in compliance with Oklahoma/Texas laws, then no one has the authority to arrest you for anything. If you step out of the water onto Corps of engineers property then the situation changes. On the Oklahoma side I wouldn't expect to see anyone hanging around waiting to arrest you though unless someone has complained.