Stand Your Ground in Danger

[A-R]

not endorsing this action, but just brainstorming:

Wouldn't Zimmerman's arrest and conviction in effect PROVE that Stand Your Ground laws are NOT the primary evil and cause of Martin's death? Sure they could still say that Zimmerman only confronted Martin because he felt secure in his ability to stand his ground, shoot, and not be prosecuted. But if Zimmerman's dime-store theory of the law is proven grossly incorrect by his conviction, then doesn't that prove the law itself DOES NOT in fact "go too far" as the antis are screaming right now? After all, any idiot can claim a gross misunderstanding of the law as his reason for breaking it - doesn't make the law bad, just proves the person is an idiot.

[PracticalTactical]

Let's can the lynchmobbery and look at the law in Florida as it relates to the initial aggressor rule. You'll find similar statutes or jury instructions in most states.

“776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.”

From what I've gathered here and there, it appears that Zimmerman gave some pursuit and got in over his head. Martin did something to bloody his nose, knock him down and wound the back of his head. At this point Martin should have realized that Zimmerman was disabled and stop using physical force. Because he didn't stop at this point, Martin became the aggressor and Zimmerman became the victim, thus restoring Zimmerman's self defense claim.

Sure, if some creepy wannabe cop was chasing me through a neighborhood, I would defend myself, but if I managed to disable him and he was laying on the ground screaming for help, I'd back off and call police to come pick the jack donkey up. Continued use of force after an assailant is no longer a threat is neither reasonable or necessary, and therefore not protected by self defense law.

[PracticalTactical]

Going after Martin was a stupid decision on Zimmerman's part, but if stupid was a crime at least half of congress and every president since Lincoln should be behind bars.

Also, check this out: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... l-experts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why hasn’t George Zimmerman, who admitted shooting and killing Trayvon Martin, been arrested?

Arresting a person means charging them with a crime. Police need probable cause that a crime was committed and the suspect committed the actual crime. The preliminary investigation indicated no crime was committed under Florida law. There is a difference between a legal crime and a social or moral crime.

This happened in Florida. Remember the Casey Anthony trial and that media circus? Casey Anthony was accused of murdering her child, Caylee. She was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.

Remember all those "expert" circus clowns and carnival barkers who populated the airwaves convinced of Casey Anthony’s guilt?

A Florida jury found Casey Anthony not guilty of murdering her child.

Do people want George Zimmerman arrested or do they want justice? There is a difference.

If it is legal justice they want, then it should be done the right way, the proper way, the American way.

If they want social or moral justice they should go live someplace else.

[PracticalTactical]

By falling in with the lynch mob and not looking at applicable law, gun owners are falling into a trap. If, despite Florida law, this guy gets arrested and convicted because the Martin family's lawyers managed to whip up a media field day and convict Zimmerman in the carnival barking kangaroo court of public opinion, this sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of us if we're ever involved in a self defense shooting.

First they came for the stupid wannabe cop, and we didn't say anything.

Do we really want to see the rest of the poem?

[Glenn61]

Was this Zimmerman person a Florida CHL holder? I'm trying to figure out what the connection is between CHL and Zimmerman, if any. Maybe all CHL'ers should demand his arrest.

[PracticalTactical]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... re-action/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now REPUBLICAN governor Scott is saying he's willing to look at making changes to the stand your ground law in Florida. If it happens in Florida, there will be momentum to change it elsewhere.

As Ackbar said, ITS A TRAP!

[speedsix]

...PracticalTactical, would you please cite the sources for this version of the story???

"From what I've gathered here and there, it appears that Zimmerman gave some pursuit and got in over his head. Martin did something to bloody his nose, knock him down and wound the back of his head. At this point Martin should have realized that Zimmerman was disabled and stop using physical force. Because he didn't stop at this point, Martin became the aggressor and Zimmerman became the victim, thus restoring Zimmerman's self defense claim."

...I have found so far only that Z. had blood on the back of his head, and that the back of his clothes were wet...no explanation for if the blood was from his injury or not(wonder if the police checked that out)...and the kid's bleating for help on the 911 tape sure didn't sound aggressive to me...and given the size differences in the two...

[J.R.@A&M]

The authors of Florida's stand-your-ground law are saying their legislation is mis-applied in Zimmerman's case. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/20/2 ... link=misea

I think I agree with A-R above that this case should work out to show that the stand-your-ground law is good policy. Same as when James Byrd's killers got convicted of murder, sentenced to death, and executed, i.e., the current laws against murder in Texas are enough withOUT extra hate crime legislation.

[sjfcontrol]

“He’s kind of stretching a whole bunch of things. And if he has a gun, that’s premeditated,” Peaden said. There’s nothing in the Florida law that allows him to follow someone with a damn gun.”

Really? Legally (presumably) carrying a gun makes it premeditated? Sure hope THAT idea doesn't catch on!

[matriculated]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... re-action/

Now REPUBLICAN governor Scott is saying he's willing to look at making changes to the stand your ground law in Florida. If it happens in Florida, there will be momentum to change it elsewhere.

As Ackbar said, ITS A TRAP!

Saying that Gov. Scott is looking at making changes is slightly misrepresenting what he actually said:

"If there's something wrong with the law that's in place, I think it's important we address it," Scott told a group of about 50 protesters in the lobby of his office, the Palm Beach Post reports. "I'm going to look at it. If what's happening is it's being abused, that's not right. We all want to live in a safe place."

So he'll look at it to see if it's being abused. That's standard politico speech and doesn't mean he's going to do anything. What else could he say there as a politician? Besides, the Florida state legislature is in firm Republican control, and I don't see a Republican legislature + Republican Governor changing that law.

Having said that, I must say that A-R has an excellent point. The best thing that could happen for the long-term prospects of Stand Your Ground is for Zimmerman to be indicted, tried, and convicted. Besides being the right thing to do based on the facts of the case, that would prove that Stand Your Ground works just fine and doesn't act as a shield for those guilty of unjustifiable killing.

[bayouhazard]

Didn't we see the same sort of rabble rousing by the racists and antigunners after Joe Horn shot those dudes? I seem to recall him also ignorng the nstructions on the phone.

[matriculated]

Didn't we see the same sort of rabble rousing by the racists and antigunners after Joe Horn shot those dudes? I seem to recall him also ignorng the nstructions on the phone.

The guys Horn shot were actual criminals in the process of committing a crime. Slight difference.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm with the others........."Stand your ground" is not at issue in this case. What is at issue is a "Gecko 45" type who was known to be a PIA to local 911 operators for always making these kinds of calls, and inserting himself into situations where he had no business. Furthermore, even if this guy was a PIA Gecko 45, it is possible (although it seems unlikely) that the accused was actually assaulted. As I recall from the news reports on TV, the "eyewitness" were after the fact. I don't believe that anybody actually saw Zimmerman draw and shoot. They only heard the gunshot. Either way, we don't really know what happened. We only know what the media, reporting from the fever-swamp of anti-gun hysteria, tell us happened. We already know that they are unreliable when it comes to details about caliber, type of weapon, etc., etc.; why should we assume that they are reliable when it comes to details of the law? They just like the soundbite of "Stand Your Ground," and they are going to use that soundbite to bludgeon us with it............




.........because that is what they do.

[RockingRook]

What Zimmerman did was not "stand your ground", it was MURDER pure and simple.

Chuck

[sjfcontrol]

What Zimmerman did was not "stand your ground", it was MURDER pure and simple.

Chuck

Really? You're convicting him based on news coverage? Spotty news coverage at that? I would ask you excuse yourself if you're ever on MY Jury!