Door To Door Solicitor Today

[thenick_ttu]

...he called the police because they were violating the permit law...period...just as he could have if they wore suits and ties and had Bibles under their arms...the law is for our protection...doesn't matter who's breaking it...

Incorrect. He had no idea if they were breaking the permit law. At least he doesn't say so in the OP and he couldn't have magically known they didn't have the required permit.

He called the cops because these two guys looked "shady"

[LeonCarr]

The OP did the right thing. Good Job.

The vast majority of unpermitted door to door scammers are there to do something other than sell magazine subscriptions. They are casing your house for future burglaries or if you do buy something from them they can use the personal information you provide to steal your identity.

By notifying local law enforcement and getting the marijuana smoking public speaker in training arrested, it sent a message to the other scammers that if you try that in this neighborhood there will be consequences. It is always better to be proactive than to come home to a house void of all valuable possessions. Most of the scams perpetrated at the street level could be the bottom rung of a much taller ladder to fund bigger things up to and including international terrorism.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[RPB]

Seems a little overboard to call the police in that situation. Assume these two really were just out soliciting and trying to raise money for a trip, how are they supposed to know they need a permit?

I've done some door-to-door soliciting for my church and I didn't know needing a permit was even a possibility so if that had been me at your door today, you would have gotten me a ticket... thanks alot.

Not overboard at all to call police on criminal activity

Many many, probably most cities have a solicitation ordinance. If they are legit, they'll have a permit. If they aren't legit, they have no permit.
Any legit solicitation program/company would check.
In fact one "Salesman" when I asked to see his permit, took off quickly ...
I've called Police on such before in Bellaire, in Pasadena and in the city where /i now live.
If they do have a permit ... I just say I'm not buying anything anyway.

[speedsix]

...he called the police because they were violating the permit law...period...just as he could have if they wore suits and ties and had Bibles under their arms...the law is for our protection...doesn't matter who's breaking it...

Incorrect. He had no idea if they were breaking the permit law. At least he doesn't say so in the OP and he couldn't have magically known they didn't have the required permit.

He called the cops because these two guys looked "shady"

...from the OP..."Our community has a solicitation permit requirement and all adult door-to-door presenters must possess it." the facts make the point...no magic...he's just an aware, involved citizen willing to do his part to keep his neighborhood a little safer...

[A-R]

thenick, these laws requiring permits are in place for a reason. It is officer discretion whether a warning or citation is issued in most cases, but a homeowner is perfectly reasonable and justified to inform police of non-permitted persons selling door-to-door. If you were innocently unaware of permit requirement and knocking for church or scouts or whatever, my guess is officer would give you a warning and tell you to get a permit for next time.

But some people knocking on doors really are up to no good, and others are just habitual annoyances who know permits are required but don't think they'll be caught or just write off citations as a cost of doing business - either way, folks like this DESERVE the police call out.

[Crossfire]

And it is absolutely wrong to think legit people don't have neck tats and sleeves. I can specifically think of one guy in my church who works with our teen ministry. He will be going door to door in a couple of weeks trying to raise money for a summer camp. He's got neck tats, sleeves and wears baggy pants and he's just as legit as any person on this board.

Sorry, kid. You come to my door, looking like that, begging for money, for whatever reason, and you are going to be very disappointed in the end result.

How you dress, what kind of ink or holes you put in your body, all tell me something about you. Whether you like it or not, that's just the way it is.

You get to decide how you dress, how you look, how you present yourself. And I get to decide where my money goes. It's called "free will". Isn't that a great system?

[Blindref757]

I called the cops because at the very minimum, they needed to be field interviewed. When houses start getting broken into, the detectives need a starting point. People who look like thugs typically are thugs. I'm sure that there are all sorts of pastors, engineers, cpa's, attorneys, and teachers with neck tats...I just haven't met them yet. They probably all have just a little bit of pot on them too...for medicinal purposes no doubt! I made a judgment based on looks, dress, their story, and their first question (what I do for a living). I don't care one bit whether or not they were cited for not having a permit, but I do care that the cops made contact with them and sent them packing.

Do you not think that people out knocking on doors should be submitted to some form of a local background check?

[thenick_ttu]

Sorry, kid.

There it is!!

It's the disconnect between old farts and young pups. Most young people today don't see tats as anything more than body art or a way to express themself. Old people see tats as something that an upstanding member of society would never do, which is completely ridiculous in today's society.

And I go back to my previous statement... the OP did not know if these two had the required permits. Unless the permits are required to be displayed while doing door-to-door (like a necklace), then he couldn't have known if they had the permits. He knew that permits are required for his neighborhood and assumed these two "shady" looking characters didn't have the required permits.

And just to answer any speculations... no, I don't have neck tats or sleeves. I don't have any visible tats. I just don't automatically think someone is a criminal or thug just because they have tats all over their body.

[Heartland Patriot]

The two "gentlemen" in question weren't simply taking a stroll down the sidewalk minding their own business, and then the "the man" decided to violate their civil liberties. I am all for the Fourth Amendment, guarantee you. But these two made what they were doing someone else's business when they stepped onto the OP's property and attempted to engage in solicitation...actions have consequences.

[RPB]

Months ago a well dressed man in a suit and a pretty girl came to my door, I use the peephole, they have brochures (any who come to my door without literature, raise suspicion) It was a Baptist Pastor and his daughter passing out info, I didn't call police
Weeks later, 3 well dressed girls/ladies came to my doorstep and they had literature in their hands, I didn't call police ... same church.
I don't know whether to go visit to that church or wait for more girls. <kidding>
I don't call Police on local churches, or girl scouts or middle school kids selling candy ...I do on "Magazine salesmen, and other businesses and scammers"

And yes, you can usually tell by their looks if they are holding literature or girl scout cookies and by their appearance. People who want to sell things, should dress as such, the same way lawyers will tell people they represent (whether Plaintiff or Defendant) to cover up Tats so Jurors don't see them.

Even when I was 14-15 years old hiring people as lifeguards, I didn't hire barefoot applicants in bathing suits, but those who dressed for an interview. It isn't an age thing as much as a "if you really want to sell stuff, dress like a salesman, and if you don't have enough sense to dress yourself appropriate to the task you are trying to do, don't waste my time. If I hire someone to dig a ditch, don't come to work in a Sunday suit, because if you do, I'll suspect a mental issue or alcohol/drug issue and send you away..... Who wants on the job injuries which should have been foreseeable ... It's about what's "appropriate" not what my tastes are in looks. (Though "I have pointed out to my niece that certain body modifications will certainly limit a person's options in careers and choices in the future... I have made no "body modifications, but was born with only 1 hand, that difference in appearance has always limited what people would be willing to LET me do, though I'm capable of doing it. Why would I intentionally limit myself more? (I'm not knocking people with tats in general, I know many, but don't come to my door showing all you have with your earlobes holes hanging down as suspenders holding up your pants on the ground trying to sell me anything I didn't need anyway saying it's to pay for law school)

[knotquiteawake]

I called the cops because at the very minimum, they needed to be field interviewed. When houses start getting broken into, the detectives need a starting point.

yep! I would have called the cops as well. After a series of break-ins you often hear people saying things like "oh yeah, there were those two guys going around door to door last week, they looked a little out of place but I didn't think anything of it at the time."

When I worked for a college public safety department we really appreciated it when students or other campus community members called us because they thought somebody looked out of place. We would just go out and FI them and decide if they had legitimate business on campus (private university on private property made the job pretty easy ). We liked being able to deter crime this way rather than fill out burglary reports later.

Last week in the middle of the afternoon somebody knocked on the door of my apartment really really lightly. I looked through the peephole and saw people I didn't recognize, one of them had a hoodie up over his/her head (couldn't tell), and the other looked like an early 20-something in baggy clothes. I didn't open the door, I just watched as they did the same thing to the neighbor. After a few minutes I decided to take a stroll and saw them at the next building over, thats when I was able to see they had some kind of ID on a lanyard and the "him/her" with the hoodie turned out to be a young woman. Not sure what they were up to or selling but after getting a better look at them my threat meter went down a notch.

[speedsix]

Sorry, kid.

There it is!!

It's the disconnect between old farts and young pups. Most young people today don't see tats as anything more than body art or a way to express themself. Old people see tats as something that an upstanding member of society would never do, which is completely ridiculous in today's society.

And I go back to my previous statement... the OP did not know if these two had the required permits. Unless the permits are required to be displayed while doing door-to-door (like a necklace), then he couldn't have known if they had the permits. He knew that permits are required for his neighborhood and assumed these two "shady" looking characters didn't have the required permits.

And just to answer any speculations... no, I don't have neck tats or sleeves. I don't have any visible tats. I just don't automatically think someone is a criminal or thug just because they have tats all over their body.

...as those of us who're in the first group you named know...most permit-issuing cities require the permit to be displayed on the clothing of from a string so that the homeowners see it immediately...so your belabouring the point that he couldn't have known is still wrong...as to the views of the first group you mention on tats, clothing styles, and so forth of the second group...let me assure you that those of the first group have once been those of the second group...and our hair and clothing styles, habits, piercings, and tats made just as poor an impression on our adults as they do on the adults today...

...as folks progress from the second group into the first group, they pick up useful info (called life experience) that help them see more than just the surface and realize when something needs looking into...or not...the tats, style of dress, etc just added to the suspicious actions and lack of having obeyed the law before knocking doors asking for our time and money...

[Blindref757]

Sorry, kid.

There it is!!

It's the disconnect between old farts and young pups. Most young people today don't see tats as anything more than body art or a way to express themself. Old people see tats as something that an upstanding member of society would never do, which is completely ridiculous in today's society.

And just to answer any speculations... no, I don't have neck tats or sleeves. I don't have any visible tats. I just don't automatically think someone is a criminal or thug just because they have tats all over their body.

If he was so proud of them, why was he trying to cover them up? I'm just guessing that it didn't say "Jesus Saves".

[olafpfj]

Door to door sales tactics might once upon a time have been an innocent practice for young people to do fund raisers but it has been sadly hijacked and you should be wary of any and all door to door "crews". There have been several expose's of these largely criminal enterprises. Never buy anything from these people and dismiss them immediately from your doorstep. Calling the police is a judgement call because there are some, although rare in my opinion, legitimate kids trying to help their school club. As evidenced by the OP the two "kids" trying to earn a trip to Barcelona were neither kids nor legit.

http://savvyconsumer.wordpress.com/2009 ... -the-road/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.travelingsalescrews.info/about.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.nclnet.org/newsroom/press-re ... -recovered" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for neck tats and whatnot, I know many people with full body head to toe tats but they don't come off as "tweakers" or "thugs" because they don't talk and act like one. What seems to have caught the OP's attention was their story not passing the sniff test and their demeanor. What usually speaks volumes about someone with tats is the subject and quality of their art. Prison and gang tats aren't usually high art and you won't find them featured much in any tatoo mags. Its like the difference between grafitti and street art. They both use the same medium and canvas but its not hard to tell the tagger from the artist.

[RPB]

speedsix said
...let me assure you that those of the first group have once been those of the second group...and our hair and clothing styles, habits, piercings, and tats made just as poor an impression on our adults as they do on the adults today...

...as folks progress from the second group into the first group, they pick up useful info (called life experience) that help them see more than just the surface and realize when something needs looking into...or not...the tats, style of dress, etc just added to the suspicious actions and lack of having obeyed the law before knocking doors asking for our time and money...

That's sooo true as I pointed out to my 16 year old niece who now understands.
The "old people" who might have been wild-haired hippy outcasts had parents who had crazy hairstyles and danced wildly, and their parents listened to crazy band music and had crazy hair and clothing styles
I don't care if it's 1920s flapper dresses or 1950s Ducktail hair styles or 1960s/70s "Mod" clothes ... we do understand, and as we get older, we see our old parents who don't understand .... understood more than we knew they did.
The older I was, the smarter my dad got.

It's about "appropriateness", I once took a girl to church, she wore a miniskirt so short ... that was our last and only date ...
Don't come to my door tats a-showin pants on the ground with no literature pretending you are a salesman. Don't come to a job interview in cutoffs and flipflops.

If you want to go a scuba diving, you dress the part to do it successfully, if you want to sell stuff, you dress the part to do so successfully, if you want to get hired, you ... If a person doesn't care enough to do that, why should people care enough about him earning points selling magazines to earn a trip to Baghdad? So, he won't sell much and I assume he WANTS to fail. Once again, I'd question his mentality or drug use, and why should I open the door or not call police on the illegal activity?

Sure, I'll dress differently to go to a "sock hop" or a rodeo/stock show ... I wouldn't go try to sell things in socks or smelling like a sweaty horse though. It's about "appropriateness"

Otherwise you should know you'll set of an alarm of "Something stinks/doesn't smell right ... Something's fishy (Tip: putting shrimp on your jeans while baiting a hook to get in an hour of fishing... before going to school ... not a good idea. Don't ask how I know) Some people find it "out of place/inappropriate."