Looking for advice on AK 47

[badroc]

OverEasy

Another good place to learn about AK's:
http://www.AK-47.net

If you get a cheap one, you have to know what to look for to get a good one. The website above will tell you what to look for. And how to fix problems if you already have one with problems.

SKS or an AK used to be cheap to shoot, when ammo was $80/1000 rds.

Now that 7.62x39 is $180/1000 rds. You might want to look at an AR-15. A cheap AR is about the same price as a medium priced AK.

They are all fun! OE

I am glad to see someone make the comparison at least somewhat. Can anyone discuss the differences between these weapons, their ammo and performance and reliability? Or is there a thread/article somewhere that already has done that?

Visit the ARFcom site... never mind, I'll just post a linky for the differences
Linky

[stevie_d_64]

OverEasy

Another good place to learn about AK's:
http://www.AK-47.net

If you get a cheap one, you have to know what to look for to get a good one. The website above will tell you what to look for. And how to fix problems if you already have one with problems.

SKS or an AK used to be cheap to shoot, when ammo was $80/1000 rds.

Now that 7.62x39 is $180/1000 rds. You might want to look at an AR-15. A cheap AR is about the same price as a medium priced AK.

They are all fun! OE

I am glad to see someone make the comparison at least somewhat. Can anyone discuss the differences between these weapons, their ammo and performance and reliability? Or is there a thread/article somewhere that already has done that?

AR's = sexy (American made), lots and lots of aftermarket bells and whistles that you can add on to make it look even sexier...Its just sexy...Build your own, or buy a manufacturers rig...Most sell for about $650 to some that go for about $1200 average price window...

AK's = robust (foriegn made), interesting add ons, manufacturing crap shoot sometimes, lots of people like them, relatively cheap for a rifle thats main intended purpose (my opinion) is for "homestead defense"...Like someone said, they take a lot of abuse and still function fairly well...They were made to do so...They are sexy from a certain point of view...I have seen some being sold at the gunshows here in S.E. Texas for about $350 to $500 tops...Its the extras (mags and ammo) that you'll spend additional $$$ on, over the life of the owner or rifle...

Between the two, I can't say I have a distinct preference between them...I have shot a lot out of both of them, and like and dislike certain things about both of them...But you can fix those things to be less of an irritation to you...

AK's eat ammo real well...AR's are kinda persnikerty at times...But...

If you maintain the rifles well, they will do what they are intended to do...Go bang, everytime you pull the trigger...Thats pretty much with anything firearms related...And thats just me...

[Ranger+P+]

I will add another 2 cents on this, since I have used AK's and their variant quite a bit in my work.

1. AK's as opposed to AR's are easier to field repair and cheaper to fix--their Operating System is much simpler. I can compare it to an standard and automatic transmission- a standard has less moving parts than an automatic; this means it is less likely to break down. The AK (or any gas piston weapon, such as a FAL) has fewer moving parts than an AR, it is much easier to field strip and requires less cleaning because the fouling is not blown back into the receiver assembly and gas tube. You can also buy a complete AK repair kit (including bolt) for cheap, I keep 10-15 lying around.
2. Ammo power. The 7.62X39 though not intrinsically accurate as the 5.56/.223, hits much harder and does much more damage on impact. I have seen AK rounds go thru a telephone pole, thru a buddy of mines leg, and lodge in a car door. My buddy lost the lower part of his leg, because a 7.62X39 round is designed to tumble once it enters soft tissue, causing catastrophic damage. Russian's were playing for keeps in their weapons and ammo designs during the Cold War. I will give the 5.56/.223 the award for superb accuracy, I have seen amazing shots made with that round. The Soviet answer to to our NATO 5.56 round was the 5.45X39 for the AK-74 Rifle, I own one of these also and like it alot.

There are several things to consider before buying an AK Rifle for home defense, namely--over-penetration. One of the reaons SWAT teams now use .223 AR's on entry teams is the frangibility of the round, unlike the formerly used HK MP-5 9mm sub-machinegun round, a .223 round because of it's velocity (3000 FPS) will often disintergrate when it hits barriers. Several lawsuits later, Police Depts. around the nation switched to .223 AR's rather then MP-5's.

The AK-47 round, being a much heavier round--penetrates anything it comes across. Take these things into consideration before you buy.

[KBCraig]

Here's one important difference between AKs and ARs: when you own an AK, you own one rifle. But when you own an AR, you can own a closet full of guns.

Turning that AR into a completely different rifle is as simple as taking 30 seconds to swap the upper half. You can go from .223 to .243, all the way up to .50 Beowulf. You can go from a 16.5" tactical shorty with a red dot sight, to a 24" heavy target rifle with bipod and big scope. The sighting system and barrel move as a single unit, so it always stays zeroed.

The AR is extremely versatile.

Kevin

[Ranger+P+]

Versatility--yes. But here is what I have found with the AR system (M4A1)over a period of 10 years. While in the USMC, I was a big fan of the gun, in training it shot well and I learned to love it. It all fell apart my first time in combat, here is a short list of my problems: (from a new rifle) complete bolt failure, firing pin broke, gas tube failure, As you are see these are not typical problems like FTF which is usually bent, or bad magazines. These are flaws with the operating system of the gun (gas system). Besides that the gun requires constant cleaning, is picky about ammunition and overheats easily. When I left the Corp and became a Security Contractor, I made it a point to use an assault rifle that operated with a gas-piston design (FAL, AK, FN FNC).

My point is versatility is never as important as durability and dependability. That is what will get you home.

I am in the business of betting my life on a piece of gear--would I do that today with an AR--absolutely not, it has let me down too many times.

Is an AK-47 versatile? Not really. Is it flashy? no, in fact it is ugly.
But I have seen AK-47's fire full of dirt, after being run over by a Humvee and after being dropped out of a helicopter. Thats durability.

I won't start in on my opinion of the 5.56/.223--I have some horror stories with it also. (It is funny when Eugene Stoner originally designed the AR, it was in .308 caliber, the best combat caliber ever made).

I am not arguing with you KB, I just want to say what I have seen and let people decide.

[KBCraig]

I am not arguing with you KB, I just want to say what I have seen and let people decide.

And I don't disagree with you. I hated the M16 as a service rifle. Almost two decades later, I'm warming up to the idea of buying at AR (or at least a couple of lowers).

Even though I don't own one now, I do appreciate their versatility, and the fact that they can be outstandingly accurate. And you're not limited to a single caliber -- the 7.62x39 certainly has many limitations too.

Kevin