Questionable company policy. Need help!

[gill32]

I work for a corporate owned company with several retail locations around the country. I have worked for the company for about 3 years and have carried daily. There are no posted signs of any kind on the premises, and the official employee handbook, under the Violence In the Workplace section reads as follows:
"Possession of a weapon while on company property or while conducting company business is strictly prohibited. (Unless specifically authorized by state law)"
Now, I am good friends with a few of my superiors, and they are aware that I carry. Today, a fax came across the wire from corporate that reads as follows:
"This is to remind you that our dealership handbook specifically prohibits weapons or firearms being brought into the workplace. Safety is our primary concern and bringing weapons into the workplace increases the chance of injury, accident or intimidation.
Please make sure you leave your weapons at home when you come to work. If you see weapons in the workplace, please report the occurance to your manager or HR. If you violate this policy, recognize that you will face disciplinary action, up to and including termination."
The fax went to all locations, not to me specifically. What is your take on this? My manager believes that the policy is that I cannot carry at work, even though it clearly states in the handbook that I can. Do I take it to the corporate level and risk opening a can of worms? Help!

[C-dub]

Sorry, but it sounds to me like they have a new policy. It doesn't sound like they can prosecute you for anything since it is not proper 30.06 notification, but termination is still an option.

[speedsix]

...you could, but that would nail you for sure...and expose your friend, your manager, to company ire and attention...I would stop talking about it at work completely, and read Texas PC 30.06 carefully and completely...if you have not been given the notice within, you're legal to carry concealed and only risking your job if discovered...if you have been given the notice within, I would advise you to follow the law...

...any further discussion at work can only result in your being given notice...the company's position seems clear and the manager/coworkers WILL value their jobs more than they do yours...

[RPB]

There are no posted signs of any kind on the premises, and the official employee handbook, under the Violence In the Workplace section reads as follows:
"Possession of a weapon while on company property or while conducting company business is strictly prohibited. (Unless specifically authorized by state law)"
Now, I am good friends with a few of my superiors, and they are aware that I carry. Today, a fax came across the wire from corporate that reads as follows:
"This is to remind you that our dealership handbook specifically prohibits weapons or firearms being brought into the workplace. Safety is our primary concern and bringing weapons into the workplace increases the chance of injury, accident or intimidation.
Please make sure you leave your weapons at home when you come to work. If you see weapons in the workplace, please report the occurance to your manager or HR. If you violate this policy, recognize that you will face disciplinary action, up to and including termination."
The fax went to all locations, not to me specifically. What is your take on this? My manager believes that the policy is that I cannot carry at work, even though it clearly states in the handbook that I can. Do I take it to the corporate level and risk opening a can of worms? Help!

policy manual should take precedence over a fax I'd think.... fax is just a partial restatement pointing to the handbook which states:

(Unless specifically authorized by state law) That would be you.

Sounds like you are still ok ... Sounds like sleeping dogs are best left alone to me.

That's the disadvantage of co-workers who know (concealed is concealed)
As you know, you can be fired for wrong style socks or no reason at all though in Texas anyway.

[sookandy]

I agree with everyone. But it says it reminds you about the policy in the handbook, which was explained in the first part. Maybe I'm playing devils advocate here.

[C-dub]

There are no posted signs of any kind on the premises, and the official employee handbook, under the Violence In the Workplace section reads as follows:
"Possession of a weapon while on company property or while conducting company business is strictly prohibited. (Unless specifically authorized by state law)"
Now, I am good friends with a few of my superiors, and they are aware that I carry. Today, a fax came across the wire from corporate that reads as follows:
"This is to remind you that our dealership handbook specifically prohibits weapons or firearms being brought into the workplace. Safety is our primary concern and bringing weapons into the workplace increases the chance of injury, accident or intimidation.
Please make sure you leave your weapons at home when you come to work. If you see weapons in the workplace, please report the occurance to your manager or HR. If you violate this policy, recognize that you will face disciplinary action, up to and including termination."
The fax went to all locations, not to me specifically. What is your take on this? My manager believes that the policy is that I cannot carry at work, even though it clearly states in the handbook that I can. Do I take it to the corporate level and risk opening a can of worms? Help!

policy manual should take precedence over a fax I'd think.... fax is just a partial restatement pointing to the handbook which states:

(Unless specifically authorized by state law) That would be you.

Sounds like you are still ok ... Sounds like sleeping dogs are best left alone to me.

That's the disadvantage of co-workers who know (concealed is concealed)
As you know, you can be fired for wrong style socks or no reason at all though in Texas anyway.

He might be okay, but his coworker is also his manager that believes the new policy/fax clearly prohibits him from carrying there.

[CC Italian]

First, as always I am not a lawyer. From my experience at my previous job in middle management it is my understanding that an employer doesn't need a reason to terminate you anyways. Let me say that I was told this by my HR division head and this was a very large company. They basically said something about Texas law and all that but it involved a situation where other employees, myself including felt threatened by a new hire who did not work out. At least 8 employees voiced concern about his physical intimidation including my boss. HR documented it and he was gone within 3 days.

When he asked why he was fired they just told him it wasn't working out at that's it. According to HR they didn't need to give him a reason. Like I said take it with a grain of salt but if its in a employer posting that would just add fuel to the fire if they really want you gone.

EDIT: At every company I have been management at they basiclly fire you at will but the HR people make sure they have clear documentation just incase a law suite happens.

[gill32]

Thank you all for the fast replies. By no means does anyone want to get rid of me. As I stated before I have been with the company for three years, and have always carried with no issues. I never discuss chl with co-workers at work, but I am good friends with 2 managers outside of work. I am caught between a major contradiction in company policy, and the 2 managers are under the mindset that it is "no big deal" to just leave your weapon in the car. Well, it is a big deal to me. Do I approach my HR dept for clarification? Do I ignore the fax and risk my job? Or do I risk my personal safety and not carry...

[CC Italian]

Do I approach my HR dept for clarification?

If this is a large corporation I would almost bet a kidney they would verbally tell you NO and then probably have something written up by legal and sent to you personally saying NO. It has been my experience that I would never trust the people in HR. They are like Internal Affairs; they had no allegiance in the corporate world! I trusted my boss and my boss’s boss but once I saw what they do and require you to do as management to make sure they "seal the deal" I would never trust one!

[CC Italian]

Do I ignore the fax and risk my job? Or do I risk my personal safety and not carry...

That's the million dollar question only you can answer! It's your personal safety!



EDIT: One more thing let me make it clear that not all HR people are the bad guys. Most deal with benefits. Depending on how a company is set up and how big it is there could be several HR divisions. Where I worked the division I am talking about was called employee asset and protection. These guys followed their job to the letter and did company policy, nothing else! Just the facts and tried to stay neutral with little opinion.

[apostate]

Do I approach my HR dept for clarification? Do I ignore the fax and risk my job? Or do I risk my personal safety and not carry...

Only you can answer those questions. I suspect you know what the company wants and now you should decide what you want.

You know your employer far better than I do, but I doubt HR clarification would be to your advantage, and would more likely fall under the category of oral notice for 30.06 purposes.

[srothstein]

I think the policy in the handbook forbids you from carrying at work. The phrase "unless specifically authorized by state law" is not going to be interpreted as meaning the CHL. It is referring to things like the parking lot bill, which specifically forbids them from stopping you from carrying.

I will almost always interpret any law or rule to my benefit when I can. I am just as confident that the company will do the same. And this is a no win case for you because not only do they get to make the rule, but they get to interpret it. They can fire you for breaking it (and will if you are caught by someone other than your friends).

You are not breaking the law and cannot be prosecuted, but you can be fired. You might be able to win a wrongful termination lawsuit but I sincerely doubt it.

[cbunt1]

my layman's take on It: you Are (as always) at risk of termination. The "authorized by law" clause is an "out" for the company should they choose to ignore it if you're outed, but nobody cares. Its also ambiguous enough to be interpreted against you if someone doesn't like it.

So, really, it means "at management's discretion," IOW "Texas is at-will, so do as you see fit, and so will we."

You can't be prosecuted, since any written notice isn't PC 30.06 complaint. Don't ask, or you could get ORAL notice, which is always compliant, in any form.....truly a case of don't ask permission, and only ask forgiveness if you must.

in short, strap it on, cover it up, and let it be. And don't ask, don't tell.

not a lawyer. Didn't stay at Holiday Inn.

[PBratton]

Personal safety aside, it pretty much boils down to this: How badly do you need the paycheck?

[Lumberjack98]

Based on what you have posted:

1. You can legally carry at work as you have not been provided proper notification.

2. You are not in compliance with corporate policy and are therefore subject to termination should they become aware of you carrying. I don't think you were ever "authorized by the state" to carry. I think that would apply to LEO, not CHL.

It's not a good position to be in.

BTW, if you ask HR for clarification, they will provide you with oral notification that no weapons are allowed and therefore you would have been given proper notification under 30.06. So DON'T ASK!!