Iran is murdering a pastor for being a Christian

[mamabearCali]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

First of all he is Iranian, so where should he practice his religion? That is his country, it is his home. It is not as if he immigrated there. Second the bible says to obey the laws of man so long as they do not interfere with the laws of God. God's laws forbid worship of any other God including the Islamic God and insist upon worship of Him and Him alone, so he can't obey the laws of the land. Better to lose your life than to lose your soul. May heaven bring this pastor and his family comfort and peace.

[Charles L. Cotton]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

The point is a Muslim country is killing someone solely because he is a Christian. So much for the argument that Americans and other Christians are murdered solely by "extremists perverting Islam."

I'm not going to get into a discussion of religion, but the Bible teaches to obey the laws of the land, so long as they do not violate the laws of God.

Chas.

I never said it was right. But we have to respect the laws of a host nation just as we expect visitors to respect ours. He went there and did what he did knowing what could happen and is going to pay the ultimate price, his life. I have to think he did this full well knowing what could happen.

You're missing my point. Many claim that Islam is a peaceful religion that doesn't condone murder. This event (and countless others in other Muslim countries where people are murdered simply because they are Christians) proves that is not true and that the claim is designed to give Americans a false sense of security. America supports Israel therefore Americans are infidels who need to be destroyed. America is a Christian country, in spite of what many will argue, so we are infidels who need to be destroyed. American citizens are being recruited to conduct terrorist attacks right here at home. Major Nadal Hasan murdered 13 people and wounded 29 more at Fort Hood. He was an American, not a foreigner, who wanted to kill the infidel. Richard Reid is an American recruited to blow up an American airliner loaded with infidels with a shoe bomb. The list goes on and it's going to get larger.

Where is the outcry from the Muslim world? Why isn't Aljazeera screaming about this atrocity? I just ran a search for "Youcef Nadarkhani" on the English version of Aljazeera and the result was "no pages found." What!? Of course, there was plenty about U.S. aid to the Palestinians being in danger, and the radical Christians in the Republican Party. Why is it we can turn on the news and not see throngs of peaceful Muslims chanting and protesting in front of the Iranian Embassy demanding that this Christian pastor not be murdered? Why? I think Lt. Col. Allen tells us why.

[youtube][/youtube]

Some will argue that I'm discussing religion in violation of our rules, but I am not. I'm talking about terrorists and their recruiting and support structure. You could substitute "Mexican drug cartel" for "Islam" and the discussion would be the same, threats to Americans.

[Charles L. Cotton]

From what I understand, he was sentenced to death for apostasy - not so much for being Christian as it was for renouncing his original faith in the first place. I imagine he'd be facing the same issue if he had become a Buddhist (not that he'd take much comfort in that, I imagine).

You are correct that the charge included apostasy, but it was also because he was a Christian.

Chas.

[Cobra Medic]

Historically, despots, dictators and oppressive regimes persecute and seek to eradicate those who they believe threaten their power and control. This fact is as old as history itself and serves as the grounds upon which almost every major military conflict in history has occurred. And this violence and persecution almost always takes place under the guise of necessary purification or essential cleansing of the culture.

You said a mouthful brother. This has a lot of parallels with the forced conversions during the inquisitions. They also murdered people who left the faith. The Spanish Inquisition is most infamous but the inquisitions were not limited to Spain, spanned centuries, and were sanctioned by The Church.

Interestingly, the inquisitions happened when Christianity was 1000-1500 years old, the same as Islam now.

[mamabearCali]

You said a mouthful brother. This has a lot of parallels with the forced conversions during the inquisitions. They also murdered people who left the faith. The Spanish Inquisition is most infamous but the inquisitions were not limited to Spain, spanned centuries, and were sanctioned by The Church.

Interestingly, the inquisitions happened when Christianity was 1000-1500 years old, the same as Islam now.

You might have a point there IF this was not SOP for hard core Islam from it's beginning. So while the inquisitions were a rather dark period of ecclesiastical history they at least have ended oh about 500-600 years ago, people got wise, actually read the bible and stopped all that nonsense. Islam has done this from the start to the modern day and is not only sanctioned by the Islam religious authorities, but is also sanctioned by their scriptures and thus will likely continue to be a part of hard core Islam.

Religion aside. We need to be real about our enemies. They hate us, and if they could they would murder every single one of us and anyone who looked at all like they agreed with us in the least. The Iranian gov't is no friend to the west, they are willing to kill one of their own citizens just for having the same belief system as the majority of Americans. They are brutal to their own people stoning people for minor offenses. I don't know why our gov't does not understand these guys do not understand mercy/conciliatory remarks. They understand just one thing power, and strength. You show anything less and it is a sign of weakness and they will try to take you as far as you will let them. The mealy mouthed words coming out of DC at this time will do nothing to quell their lust for death and destruction of all that is dear to us.

[carlson1]

Excellent video!

[Oldgringo]

Budist do not kill those that convert to another faith.
islam is the #1 murderer of converts to Christianity.

Islam is the number one murderer of everybody...including their own. Yes, I am prejudiced...a whole lot when it comes to Islam and its minions.

[Heartland Patriot]

You know what? I am who I am, a product of this nation, its history, my familial ties and national/state culture...I don't want to be converted to anyone else's religion and I really don't feel like getting "whacked" by them because I don't want to convert. I don't care about the moral equivalency statements comparing Christianity during any part of its history with Islam during any part of its history. (Or even comparing capitalism to socialism in a similar manner.) I generally like this nation the way it is (though it obviously has problems that I and many others think require correcting) and I want it to stay in some recognizable facsimile of its present self. I know I'm only one man, I can influence only the folks around me, and then only to a limited amount. Thus, I don't care if someone calls me names per se in an attempt to make me feel bad simply because I don't get all gushy and agreeable when they make excuses for folks who would dearly LOVE to do me in given half a chance. All that said, I believe that there are people in other places in this world that feel like I do concerning THEIR situation...and the truth about the way things in this world work is that someday, either we will "win" or they will "win". My small little part is to do my best to make sure the other guy doesn't "win" within my lifetime. I feel I did the best job toward that end that I could during my years in uniform, and now as a citizen trying to be informed and engaged.

[suthdj]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

First of all he is Iranian, so where should he practice his religion? That is his country, it is his home. It is not as if he immigrated there. Second the bible says to obey the laws of man so long as they do not interfere with the laws of God. God's laws forbid worship of any other God including the Islamic God and insist upon worship of Him and Him alone, so he can't obey the laws of the land. Better to lose your life than to lose your soul. May heaven bring this pastor and his family comfort and peace.

I understand it is a tragedy that this is happening however would you walk into a zombie camp, wolf den, bear cave, Muslim country full well knowing you may never walk out, yes I know he is Iranian and if he valued his life should have practised in private. My view on religion is different. I believe people should come to you, never knowing you are a christian because they see you are a better person and want to know how to be more like you. BTW isn't God the same God for Muslim, Jews, Christians? I just did the search on that and the religious community is at odds there also, So it is a mute point. I lost hope in religion(not god) a long time ago I see it as a tool for control and money making, not 100% but enough to discourage me away from it.

As a side note here is a joke I remembered my pastor telling when I was a kid.
3 religious leaders(insert your religions of choice) were standing and talking about how much of the church money goes to god.
The first guy says "I draw a circle on the ground then throw the money in the sky that which falls in the circle god gets."
The second guy says "I draw a circle on the ground then throw the money in the sky that which falls outside the circle god gets."
The third guy says "I throw the money in the sky that which god grabs god gets."

[suthdj]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

The point is a Muslim country is killing someone solely because he is a Christian. So much for the argument that Americans and other Christians are murdered solely by "extremists perverting Islam."

I'm not going to get into a discussion of religion, but the Bible teaches to obey the laws of the land, so long as they do not violate the laws of God.

Chas.

I never said it was right. But we have to respect the laws of a host nation just as we expect visitors to respect ours. He went there and did what he did knowing what could happen and is going to pay the ultimate price, his life. I have to think he did this full well knowing what could happen.

You're missing my point. Many claim that Islam is a peaceful religion that doesn't condone murder. This event (and countless others in other Muslim countries where people are murdered simply because they are Christians) proves that is not true and that the claim is designed to give Americans a false sense of security. America supports Israel therefore Americans are infidels who need to be destroyed. America is a Christian country, in spite of what many will argue, so we are infidels who need to be destroyed. American citizens are being recruited to conduct terrorist attacks right here at home. Major Nadal Hasan murdered 13 people and wounded 29 more at Fort Hood. He was an American, not a foreigner, who wanted to kill the infidel. Richard Reid is an American recruited to blow up an American airliner loaded with infidels with a shoe bomb. The list goes on and it's going to get larger.

Where is the outcry from the Muslim world? Why isn't Aljazeera screaming about this atrocity? I just ran a search for "Youcef Nadarkhani" on the English version of Aljazeera and the result was "no pages found." What!? Of course, there was plenty about U.S. aid to the Palestinians being in danger, and the radical Christians in the Republican Party. Why is it we can turn on the news and not see throngs of peaceful Muslims chanting and protesting in front of the Iranian Embassy demanding that this Christian pastor not be murdered? Why? I think Lt. Col. Allen tells us why.

[youtube][/youtube]

Some will argue that I'm discussing religion in violation of our rules, but I am not. I'm talking about terrorists and their recruiting and support structure. You could substitute "Mexican drug cartel" for "Islam" and the discussion would be the same, threats to Americans.

I Went back and reread your first post again and yes I guess missed it and agree with you. My post(s) I guess are more about us thinking we have any say in what a sovereign nation does with in it's own borders. I apologize for going astray from the point of the topic.

[The Annoyed Man]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

NO, it doesn't. It says, very specifically with regard to paying taxes, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" (Matthew 22:21).....and I am somewhat of a biblical scholar.

There is such a thing as human rights. They exist, whether or not a government honors and defends them. When our founders wrote of these rights, they said (depending on which individual founder said it) that they are either "God-given," or "given by Nature's God," or "natural rights."

Governments do not create rights. Rights existed before governments existed because they are given by God, or part of nature for those of an atheist bent, either of which predate the invention of human governments. To argue that a right does not exist is no different than arguing that electrons don't exist. They simply "are." The government of Iran chooses to contravene that which many other nations—even post-Christian secularist nations such as those of western Europe—recognize and protect to one degree or another. The mullahs who run Iran are not civilized men. Their puppet boy Ahmadinejad is an irrational tool. It doesn't matter that Christianity is against the law in Iran, which is a stoooooopid notion anyway. How do you outlaw the act of "being?" The knuckleheads in charge there are notoriously poor respecters of human rights. This is just another example of it.

The good news is that God is in charge. The crazy mullahs are bound for the eternal spiritual slag heap, a hot dry place that has all the charm of the interior of a fresh cow plop, unless they radically change their ways. If they carry out the murder of this Pastor, he will have been martyred for the faith. His reward will be higher than theirs.

[The Annoyed Man]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

The point is a Muslim country is killing someone solely because he is a Christian. So much for the argument that Americans and other Christians are murdered solely by "extremists perverting Islam."

I'm not going to get into a discussion of religion, but the Bible teaches to obey the laws of the land, so long as they do not violate the laws of God.

Chas.

I never said it was right. But we have to respect the laws of a host nation just as we expect visitors to respect ours. He went there and did what he did knowing what could happen and is going to pay the ultimate price, his life. I have to think he did this full well knowing what could happen.

A) He didn't "went there." The man is Iranian. It's his country.

B) No, you don't have to respect the laws of any nation if they are unjust. Your argument would have condemned Martin Luther King for deliberately violating unjust laws as an act of civil disobedience. Obviously, you have to choose whether or not to obey an unjust law, but you never have to respect an unjust law.

[speedsix]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

NO, it doesn't. It says, very specifically with regard to paying taxes, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" (Matthew 22:21).....and I am somewhat of a biblical scholar.

There is such a thing as human rights. They exist, whether or not a government honors and defends them. When our founders wrote of these rights, they said (depending on which individual founder said it) that they are either "God-given," or "given by Nature's God," or "natural rights."

Governments do not create rights. Rights existed before governments existed because they are given by God, or part of nature for those of an atheist bent, either of which predate the invention of human governments. To argue that a right does not exist is no different than arguing that electrons don't exist. They simply "are." The government of Iran chooses to contravene that which many other nations—even post-Christian secularist nations such as those of western Europe—recognize and protect to one degree or another. The mullahs who run Iran are not civilized men. Their puppet boy Ahmadinejad is an irrational tool. It doesn't matter that Christianity is against the law in Iran, which is a stoooooopid notion anyway. How do you outlaw the act of "being?" The knuckleheads in charge there are notoriously poor respecters of human rights. This is just another example of it.

The good news is that God is in charge. The crazy mullahs are bound for the eternal spiritual slag heap, a hot dry place that has all the charm of the interior of a fresh cow plop, unless they radically change their ways. If they carry out the murder of this Pastor, he will have been martyred for the faith. His reward will be higher than theirs.

PM

[speedsix]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

The point is a Muslim country is killing someone solely because he is a Christian. So much for the argument that Americans and other Christians are murdered solely by "extremists perverting Islam."

I'm not going to get into a discussion of religion, but the Bible teaches to obey the laws of the land, so long as they do not violate the laws of God.

Chas.

...that's correct, Charles, on both points...anyone who believes Islam is a peaceful religion that worships God by another name has their head somewhere it wasn't intended to be...it is a religion of war, darkness, and hate...pledged to convert or conquer the Earth...and kill all who get in the way, if they can't overpopulate or take over our governments...the most dangerous thing about a war is if you don't know your enemy...and most of America is still playing feely-touchy-nicey-nice with those who live to destroy us...

[The Annoyed Man]

It is sad that they feel the need for a death penalty. However when you travel outside the US you are subject to the laws and court decisions of the host country and justice is not always the first concern. If christianity is illegal in Iran then he should not have been practicing it. I am not a biblical expert by any means but I believe the bible says something about obeying the laws of man.

NO, it doesn't. It says, very specifically with regard to paying taxes, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" (Matthew 22:21).....and I am somewhat of a biblical scholar.

There is such a thing as human rights. They exist, whether or not a government honors and defends them. When our founders wrote of these rights, they said (depending on which individual founder said it) that they are either "God-given," or "given by Nature's God," or "natural rights."

Governments do not create rights. Rights existed before governments existed because they are given by God, or part of nature for those of an atheist bent, either of which predate the invention of human governments. To argue that a right does not exist is no different than arguing that electrons don't exist. They simply "are." The government of Iran chooses to contravene that which many other nations—even post-Christian secularist nations such as those of western Europe—recognize and protect to one degree or another. The mullahs who run Iran are not civilized men. Their puppet boy Ahmadinejad is an irrational tool. It doesn't matter that Christianity is against the law in Iran, which is a stoooooopid notion anyway. How do you outlaw the act of "being?" The knuckleheads in charge there are notoriously poor respecters of human rights. This is just another example of it.

The good news is that God is in charge. The crazy mullahs are bound for the eternal spiritual slag heap, a hot dry place that has all the charm of the interior of a fresh cow plop, unless they radically change their ways. If they carry out the murder of this Pastor, he will have been martyred for the faith. His reward will be higher than theirs.

PM

Responding to the PM right now....