PO'd Doesn't Begin to Describe It

[VoiceofReason]

You are right it is not fair to yell and scream at a TSA agent. Let me say something that my father would have said "a fare is something you pay to ride a bus--life is not fair."

If a person is the willing agent of a organization quite literally assaulting thousands of people daily, then they are going to get the righteous wrath of the populace who do not appreciate their assistance to the gov't in this outrage. Does this accomplish anything on an organizational level--probably not. However, if a person just put their hands on my child's private parts without the child's or my consent (consent under duress is not consent) and I have no legal recourse to charge them with a criminal activity, no means to seek to be made whole from this assault, then people will do what they legally can do to let the person who just violated their child/wife/grandma know just how despicable they found that person's actions, that is if the person assaulted has some amount of control.

The TSA would like to say to us "Don't like our policies (which include the fondling of genitalia and illegal strip searches)--don't fly" I would like to say to those allowing the TSA head to assault people through their hands "Don't like the people's justifiable reaction to your assaults--get a new job." It is just a reasonable as what they ask us to do.

What really happens is that when you walk away one will turn to the other and say "what a jerk" and it will be forgotten. It may also take them longer to clear you.

That's the real world.

[Dadiggla]

I enjoyed reading and adding to the conversation. I saw your devil's advocate approach to be lively and could tell you were not making light of OP's wife's situation. Here we are talking about fundamental rights and when someone uses the right to express an opinion they are belittled, ganged up on and made to feel like they've offended the world. Some opinions are not popular but seeing another's perspective through debate is good for progress...sometimes the masses forget that.

Well, if the "masses" are belittling, ganging up on, and making someone feel like they've offended the world. Then don't post and/or quit the forum, therefore they wouldn't be subject to such persecution. After all, they chose to post in the first place.

you sound just like TSA.

[VoiceofReason]

I enjoyed reading and adding to the conversation. I saw your devil's advocate approach to be lively and could tell you were not making light of OP's wife's situation. Here we are talking about fundamental rights and when someone uses the right to express an opinion they are belittled, ganged up on and made to feel like they've offended the world. Some opinions are not popular but seeing another's perspective through debate is good for progress...sometimes the masses forget that.

Well, if the "masses" are belittling, ganging up on, and making someone feel like they've offended the world. Then don't post and/or quit the forum, therefore they wouldn't be subject to such persecution. After all, they chose to post in the first place.

you sound just like TSA.

Nope, but I have had a few people talk their way into jail when I had intended to give them a break to begin with.

My point is that if you have a problem with the TSA screener, talk to his / her supervisor or write a letter to TSA, your congressman, the newspaper, God and everybody. Getting nasty with the screener will not change the policy but may cause you extra hassle.

[Dadiggla]

We all know we are free to move from state to state unmolested. Once you choose a mode of transportation that YOU do not own you are subjecting yourself to the rules of that carrier. IE...no smoking. Foul language. No weapons. Your individual rights do not supersede mine. With that said if United, AA, Delta etc allow these procedures in order to safeguard their business(because that's all it really comes down to is money) you volunteer to random or pin pointed search of your person and or property. You don't have to fly, therefore you don't have to fly. A business has the right to refuse service to anyone. You have the right to pursue a pilots license and buy your own plane.

[Dadiggla]

I enjoyed reading and adding to the conversation. I saw your devil's advocate approach to be lively and could tell you were not making light of OP's wife's situation. Here we are talking about fundamental rights and when someone uses the right to express an opinion they are belittled, ganged up on and made to feel like they've offended the world. Some opinions are not popular but seeing another's perspective through debate is good for progress...sometimes the masses forget that.

Well, if the "masses" are belittling, ganging up on, and making someone feel like they've offended the world. Then don't post and/or quit the forum, therefore they wouldn't be subject to such persecution. After all, they chose to post in the first place.

you sound just like TSA.

Nope, but I have had a few people talk their way into jail when I had intended to give them a break to begin with.
We're on the same page as far as that goes.
My point is that if you have a problem with the TSA screener, talk to his / her supervisor or write a letter to TSA, your congressman, the newspaper, God and everybody. Getting nasty with the screener will not change the policy but may cause you extra hassle.

[VoiceofReason]

you still haven't stated a case in which the TSA has prevented an event with their policies, and as I said before I'm talking about an event, NOT, a mistake of some LEO carrying his gun, some teenager or businessman carrying his leatherman, etc. As far as I know the 'events' that have been prevented have been trial runs and have been caught after the screening process. IF, and only IF, their policies did prevent something from happening I MIGHT be willing to go along without complaint, but I don't see anything being prevented by their process...I will go along for now, but I still reserve the right to complain....my teenage daughter flies to FL at least once a year, a drive of that far, yeh, no....thus far she hasn't been selected for screening, thanks to loads of prayer everytime she flies.

The saying that “you can’t prove a negative” is true.

I wish there was some way we could prove how many crimes have been prevented by Concealed Carry. That would shut down the anti-gunners real quick.

There is also no way to prove how many hijackings or bombings have been prevented by airport security being a deterrence.

[7075-T7]

I enjoyed reading and adding to the conversation. I saw your devil's advocate approach to be lively and could tell you were not making light of OP's wife's situation. Here we are talking about fundamental rights and when someone uses the right to express an opinion they are belittled, ganged up on and made to feel like they've offended the world. Some opinions are not popular but seeing another's perspective through debate is good for progress...sometimes the masses forget that.

Well, if the "masses" are belittling, ganging up on, and making someone feel like they've offended the world. Then don't post and/or quit the forum, therefore they wouldn't be subject to such persecution. After all, they chose to post in the first place.

you sound just like TSA.

That was my point. I'm usng the same "You don't like it then don't use the service" argument for those that feel persecuted on the forum.

[7075-T7]

Nope, but I have had a few people talk their way into jail when I had intended to give them a break to begin with.

My point is that if you have a problem with the TSA screener, talk to his / her supervisor or write a letter to TSA, your congressman, the newspaper, God and everybody. Getting nasty with the screener will not change the policy but may cause you extra hassle.

I don't think anyone has condoned venting frustration at the agents themselves. I think we all understand that it will not lead in a positive direction for both parties.

But, when someone has to start disrobing for a possible hit on a stroller, it appears to be less about security and more about power. What are they going to discover that the 'enhanced' pat-downs wouldn't?

[mamabearCali]

You are right it is not fair to yell and scream at a TSA agent. Let me say something that my father would have said "a fare is something you pay to ride a bus--life is not fair."

If a person is the willing agent of a organization quite literally assaulting thousands of people daily, then they are going to get the righteous wrath of the populace who do not appreciate their assistance to the gov't in this outrage. Does this accomplish anything on an organizational level--probably not. However, if a person just put their hands on my child's private parts without the child's or my consent (consent under duress is not consent) and I have no legal recourse to charge them with a criminal activity, no means to seek to be made whole from this assault, then people will do what they legally can do to let the person who just violated their child/wife/grandma know just how despicable they found that person's actions, that is if the person assaulted has some amount of control.

The TSA would like to say to us "Don't like our policies (which include the fondling of genitalia and illegal strip searches)--don't fly" I would like to say to those allowing the TSA head to assault people through their hands "Don't like the people's justifiable reaction to your assaults--get a new job." It is just a reasonable as what they ask us to do.

What really happens is that when you walk away one will turn to the other and say "what a jerk" and it will be forgotten. It may also take them longer to clear you.

That's the real world.

So what--they are callous, and don't give two chickens about what they have just done. I have heard that criminals get that way committing crimes. We just don't have a legal means to deal with the criminal searches that are being forced on law abiding citizens by the policies and people appointed not elected. If all they got as a dress down they got off much easier than they should have as the person just assaulted has to deal with the effects of that assault for a good bit of time to come.

[Dragonfighter]

Nope, but I have had a few people talk their way into jail when I had intended to give them a break to begin with.

My point is that if you have a problem with the TSA screener, talk to his / her supervisor or write a letter to TSA, your congressman, the newspaper, God and everybody. Getting nasty with the screener will not change the policy but may cause you extra hassle.

I don't think anyone has condoned venting frustration at the agents themselves. I think we all understand that it will not lead in a positive direction for both parties.

But, when someone has to start disrobing for a possible hit on a stroller, it appears to be less about security and more about power. What are they going to discover that the 'enhanced' pat-downs wouldn't?

Stretch marks?

[tbrown]

But, when someone has to start disrobing for a possible hit on a stroller, it appears to be less about security and more about power. What are they going to discover that the 'enhanced' pat-downs wouldn't?

Stretch marks?

[VoiceofReason]

I am so angry right now I can hardly contain myself.

I dropped my wife and daughter off this morning at Hobby Airport for their trip to California. My wife sent me a text that when she went through the metal detector with the stroller, a TSA agent pulled her aside and informed her that she had triggered "an alarm". They escorted my wife and daughter to a private room where they proceeded to strip search my wife down to her underwear and toss all of her baggage. Thankfully, they did not touch my 8 month old daughter. After they found nothing, they let my wife get dressed and she threw some colorful language at them and told them exactly where they could go. They, of course, could not understand why people were getting so upset over them "just doing their jobs."

She did not press for any more of an explanation because this made her late for her flight, which she thankfully caught. And her being wise enough to know how mad she was, probably would have not gotten very far anyways.

I am sick and tired of these jack boots with Federal protection and now it really hits home! I'm already sitting down tonight to write my representatives, both senators and the governor. What else should I be doing? Is there any thing else I can do? I've never felt so angry and yet helpless at the same time. I wasn't the one that was severely violated but it sure feels like it.

I probably oppose the airport security theatre more than anyone on this board, for more reasons than I can list here. I will never fly again except in a dire emergency.

People should continue to expose and fight this (expletive deleted) but remember to “pick your battles”. If a person verbally vents on the screeners, he / she just come off as a loud mouthed jerk. Remember you want to look like the “good guy”. Hold your temper then hit them where it really hurts.

SQLGeek, you did the right thing by writing your representatives, both senators and the governor. Now you need to write a letter to your newspaper and any other media outlets you think may have even a remote chance of reporting this. See if you can get a few internet blogs to post your wife’s experience also.

Politicians will work the hardest on issues that make the most news. This problem has been fading from the news and the public needs to keep the media focused on it.

If I did fly, they would only make me take off my shoes one time then there would be pictures of me posted at every airport with a notice “Warning do not make this man take off his shoes”.

If they made me undress the screeners would be going to therapy for years.

[Bullwhip]

The right way to handle this is by not getting your blood pressure up, be polite then writing letters to the appropriate people.

I ask again, exactly what do you think yelling at, and insulting the TSA agent will accomplish???

More than going home and writing polite letters. If just writing letters worked we wouldnt' have most of the bad laws we have now. Probably even be rid of TSA/ATF/others by now.

[Dave2]

There is also no way to prove how many hijackings or bombings have been prevented by airport security being a deterrence.

But it can be proven that of all the bombing attempts since the TSA started being unreasonable, exactly zero of them were stopped by airport security. [rant] Every single bombing attempt in which they've actually tried to go through with it has been stopped by the passengers and/or crew on the plane, or by intelligence on the ground before the BG(s) get to the airport. Thus far, there's been one guy with a gun who's claim of forgetting it was in his carryon bag was a tad bit fishy, but for a while there it seemed like we were hearing stories every other week about how some random passenger was in a hurry, forgot that they had their gun on them, and got through security just fine. And as far as actual security threats are concerned, that's the full extent of their record... TSA - 1 (maybe), Forgetful Citizens Who Aren't Even Trying - 2 (off the top of my head). It's probably more than that... would you out yourself for carrying a gun on a plane? I sure wouldn't; the overzealous DA would have a field day.

There was an ABC report a while back that quoted a TSA official as saying that at one airport, undercover agents were able to get through security with banned items (guns, knives, bombs, etc) over 70% of the time. I don't know about you, but I'd consider a 70% chance of getting something on board pretty good odds. Heck, two BGs ups your odds to 91%, and a third makes 97.3%. How in the world is a 97.3% chance of success for a three-man team a deterrent for anything? If I were a BG trying to smuggle something onto a plane, I'd be more scared of a 98 year-old grandma with emphysema and a stiff purse than I would be of a TSA agent.[/rant]

[VoiceofReason]

The right way to handle this is by not getting your blood pressure up, be polite then writing letters to the appropriate people.

I ask again, exactly what do you think yelling at, and insulting the TSA agent will accomplish???

More than going home and writing polite letters. If just writing letters worked we wouldnt' have most of the bad laws we have now. Probably even be rid of TSA/ATF/others by now.

And your solution would be?