PO'd Doesn't Begin to Describe It

[Pawpaw]

i would treat it as a privilege to fly on my airline, not a right.

That about says it right there.

Get rid of the TSA and let each airline decide on the security. It would be interesting to see if the airline run by schufflerbot would survive. Or if all the other customer centered airlines would go down in flames because of rampant terrorist attacks.

it honestly would!

it boils down to each individual and, again, what they're willing to put up with. those who value their freedom over their safety would probably not be flying schuffler airlines.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[Dragonfighter]

...and to those who feel that this is a 'security show' and not effective, is that honestly your opinion??

what would you rather see as a solution?

Sir, if a terrorist wanted to take a out a ton of people he would just detonate a bomb in the security line. If they were SO worried about the liquid why are they just throwing them in a trash can beside the security line. If they actually thought that a person had a bomb do you think that they would be handling it and manipulating a potentially explosive device with nothing but a dirty pair of gloves inbetween them and the device. That is how I KNOW this is security theater.

<SNIP>

This. Warning: Though no gore or bad language, it is at least as disturbing as the mustang video.

[n5wd]

That said, imagine how you would feel if your wife and child were on a plane and because the TSA did not investigate a positive alarm, some skell hijacked the flight, or, blew it up.

Where's the logic in that statement? You think the TSA really believed she had explosives?

I don't know what the TSA people were thinking because I wasn't there, and I ain't one of 'em.

However, I have seen pre-teens used to deliver explosives before (Vietnam 70-71) - if it happened there, it COULD happen here.

[Dave2]

That said, imagine how you would feel if your wife and child were on a plane and because the TSA did not investigate a positive alarm, some skell hijacked the flight, or, blew it up.

Where's the logic in that statement? You think the TSA really believed she had explosives?

I don't know what the TSA people were thinking because I wasn't there, and I ain't one of 'em.

However, I have seen pre-teens used to deliver explosives before (Vietnam 70-71) - if it happened there, it COULD happen here.

Sure it could, but that's not the point. If they didn't believe she had explosives the strip search was unnecessary; if they did believe she had explosives on her then nothing good can come from a strip search without her being locked in an explosion-proof room with a bomb squad robot.

Nobody's complaining that the TSA is trying to make airplanes secure; we're complaining that their methods are degrading and don't make any sense. To me, they smell like the standard government nonsense of "we have to do something, this is something, therefore we must do it.

[74novaman]

...and to those who feel that this is a 'security show' and not effective, is that honestly your opinion??

what would you rather see as a solution?

Sir, if a terrorist wanted to take a out a ton of people he would just detonate a bomb in the security line. If they were SO worried about the liquid why are they just throwing them in a trash can beside the security line. If they actually thought that a person had a bomb do you think that they would be handling it and manipulating a potentially explosive device with nothing but a dirty pair of gloves inbetween them and the device. That is how I KNOW this is security theater.

I had a similar thought in Denver International this year. As I stand in the security line surrounded by 500 of my closest strangers, I'm looking at the 2nd level and going hmm. If I was a jihadi, a few grenades and a couple of mag dumps from up there would cause a ton of damage. And there's no screening to get up there.

But yes, the security theater is keeping us all perfectly protected.

As one of our overlords said after the shoe bomber was only subdued on the plane as he tried to ignite his shoe, "The system worked!".

[FL450]

The stroller might not of fit on the belt. My wife went to the Air Tran ticket counter at IAH this morning so she could get a gate pass to escort our daughter and 1 year old Grand son to the gate with all the associated kid gear and the gate agent told her she couldn't get a gate pass to which my wife replied you either get someone to helP her or give me a gate pass. The agent rudely gave her a gate pass. NOre to TSA and Airline employees. If you don't like your job suck it up with a smile or get out.

[Bennies]

I know I have said it before but I'll say it again. Please please don't fly until these security measures are changed. They are highly ineffective and let's face it..... They are just to condition the population. Everyday there are thousands of airport/airline employees that go to work( some with direct contact with the aircraft) that are not screened in any fashion. Yet the general law abiding population is sexually assaulted trying to exercise their right as American citizens to travel freely within our borders. This madness needs to stop.
While travelers are getting sexually abused keep this in mind. Over 60% of test weapons are missed by screeners during random test. Heck a couple weeks ago a fellow pilot told me they had to clear it little rocks terminal and rescreen all passengers because tsa forgot to properly turn on their medal detector. Whoops.

I also don't buy the TSA agents are just doing their jobs. They choose willingly to violate the constitution daily. So if people give them a little attitude par for the course. What do they expect? I almost had to give up my career because of TSA thug tactics. And if pilots ever become subjected again to sexual assault at the hands of the TSA then I will be gone. There are other jobs out there that do not require molestation daily as part of the commute.

To the OP I am sorry to hear your story. I hope sanity will one day prevail. Until then my family will be driving.

[SewTexas]

schufflerbot wrote:
sorry this happened to you, i wish we lived in a world where these screens weren't necessary.

I don't believe these screening are ness. I don't think they do a thing to make us safer. please, point to an instance in which these screenings have prevented a real attack?? I don't mean a cop carrying a weapon, or someone carrying a knife, I mean a terrorist carrying a bomb.

And when your wife or daughter is groped or strip searched......I'm afraid your view of life will change.

[terryg]

We already have the solution. Harden the cockpit doors. Arm the pilots. Do intelligence work. Have mild screening of passengers that may or may not include a short interview and bomb sniffing dog.
Accept that life is not 100% safe
, and
respect the God given constitutional rights of American citizens.

Ding Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.

Even IF these TSA procedures made us a little safer in the air - and I don't think that do (in fact, they may do the exact opposite) - but even IF that were true; I would rather myself and my family fly at a greater risk of dying than to have our constitutional rights trampled in the process.

------

schufflerbot,

So you don't currently have a problem with the screening, because flying is a choice. Let me ask you, what if the next wave of terror attacks happen at shopping malls across the country? The public will scream that we need to be protected from this. So in come the nudie scanners and the strip searches at the malls - because remember, they are just trying to keep us all safe - its for our own good - going to the mall is a choice anyway.

Maybe public schools are next. Where does it stop? Then, once they are in place and the 4th amendment is so watered down as to be worthless and they figure out that the terrorist will simply move to implantable/insert-able devices anyway, what is next?

Maybe the government should be proactive. If we wait to catch someone with a device, its too late. Let's catch those carrying anti-government propaganda. Or you know it's always the religious nut jobs that attack other people anyway, lets catch those with a Koran or a Bible in their pocket.

Once you institute technology and policies that reveal anything a person might be carrying, the 4th amendment becomes a footnote. More than any other reason, this is why the TSA screenings matter.

[Bullwhip]

Ive been witness to this in my MANY flights to and fro the last few years. And one thing I do notice is that "we"(general public) are taking our frustration out on the wrong people. TSA screeners really are "Just doing their job". They dont make policies or rules.

Take the job, you take everthing that comes eith it.

[gigag04]

What right is being trampled? Flying is not a protected right, nor is driving.

IF you choose to do those things, you have to do it a certain way. If you don't like TSA, charter your own plane.

I don't like the process either because I think it is an epic waste of money. I realize that I waive my "rights" voluntarily when I book a flight.

[FL450]

What right is being trampled? Flying is not a protected right, nor is driving.

IF you choose to do those things, you have to do it a certain way. If you don't like TSA, charter your own plane.

I don't like the process either because I think it is an epic waste of money. I realize that I waive my "rights" voluntarily when I book a flight.

When you charter you are still run thru the TSA no fly list.

[Dadiggla]

Ive been witness to this in my MANY flights to and fro the last few years. And one thing I do notice is that "we"(general public) are taking our frustration out on the wrong people. TSA screeners really are "Just doing their job". They dont make policies or rules.

Take the job, you take everthing that comes eith it.

Point taken. You choose to fly a commercial flight, so do you.

[Jumping Frog]

In Israel they don't do the crotch grabbing and nude photos, they seem to be on to something that works better.

Granted, Israel is a tiny place, so access control via civilian air travel is not the monster it is here CONUS. However, the approach they use to identify potential lunatics is far more effective, efficient, and less invasive, than the amateurish joke of a system we adopted. The Israeli's figured out a long time ago that they needed to develop an approach that prioritizes personnel screening as much as, if not more so, than equipment screening. This concept seems to be lost in our approach to security.

Although I agree with your basic point, there are also aspects of the Israeli approach that would never work in the US. In Israel, you need to deliver any bags you are checking to the airport a day in advance of your departure for screening.

[7075-T7]

Ive been witness to this in my MANY flights to and fro the last few years. And one thing I do notice is that "we"(general public) are taking our frustration out on the wrong people. TSA screeners really are "Just doing their job". They dont make policies or rules.

Take the job, you take everthing that comes eith it.

Point taken. You choose to fly a commercial flight, so do you.

Can I assume that you never complain about the price of gas because you choose to drive a car instead of walk?
Or that the tolways are owned by a private company and will never be paid off because you choose to drive on them?
Or that you disagree with any government policy, tax, law, or otherwie because you choose to live in the USA?