Flash Mob

[jocat54]

Interesting topic I am just reading about for the first time. Guess I live under a rock but have only heard about the flash mob thing recently. Are flash mobs a big deal in Texas?

Anyway, to help answer the question about what one would / could legally do in such a situation, what do you think a single police officer would do?

1. Call for backup
2. Try to save a person being beat up (probably only to be beaten him or herself???)
3. Fire some warning shots.
4. Shoot to kill?


Any LEOs on here that could answer from their perspective.

I guess this is another scenario I had not thought about, but sounds like one perhaps more likely that other BG scenarios.
Thoughts / comments appreciated.

1) I am not trying to be negative but who are you going to call for "backup"? If you have time to do that you should be calling 911 instead.

2) I completely understand helping others out and will do so as much as I can. However, I go back to what I said earlier in the thread...

I understand that in the cases of these "Flash Mobs" that it would be pretty obvious who is the innocent party. But you have to consider the numbers. Are you going to do any good by intervening or will you just become another casualty? I am one that believes in helping others out when I can. However, in a case like this I might even have to say that the best thing a person could do is to call 911 and provide the best and most detailed descriptions that you can. Stay on the line with them and do one of two things after the mob leaves. Check the victim/s and depending if they are in need of first aid or not you should 1) render first aid or 2) try and see where the mob is going and give as much information to the authorities as you can (car descriptions, directions, etc).

3) It is illegal to fire a "warning shot". The only time you can legally discharge your weapon in a self-defense situation is if you are legally allowed to use deadly force.

4) We NEVER shoot to kill. NEVER. We shoot to stop the threat.

Not to start any argruements--but if I have to pull a weapon and fire it--it will not be to wound someone and it probably won't be one shot.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

There is a huge difference between shooting with intent to kill and shooting to stop the threat.

In self-defense you shoot to stop the threat. Once the threat is stopped you stop shooting.

[E.Marquez]

Not to start any argruements--but if I have to pull a weapon and fire it--it will not be to wound someone and it probably won't be one shot.

No argument, but I do think you missed the intent.

“Stopping the threat” does not equal warning shots or “wounding shots” whatever the heck that might mean..

Use of your concealed Hand gun = decision to use deadly force.
Use of deadly force = being deadly, until the threat is stopped. If that point in time coincides with the death of the attacker, that is ok, if he is simply laying there bleeding heavily from non mortal wounds, but is incapacitated, then that also is a successful outcome to your decision to use deadly force in your self defense in order to “Stop the Threat”

[Dragonfighter]

For me if a person is getting beat it means he is not defending himself, hence not a threat. So weather he started it or not the beater is still in the wrong. If he is defending himseflf then it is a fight, worthy of watching.

We are taught to stop when the threat stops, right? So, who is to say that they guy doing the beating didn't try to stop but the original attacker just kept coming? Kind of like an attacker that gets shot multiple times but keeps on coming. You shouldn't stop until the threat is stopped.

Also, I cannot for the life of me remember where I heard this but it is a good lesson. A guy was driving down the road and saw a car off to the side where a man was beating a woman. Most of us would want to stop and help as it is not right for a man to lay a hand on a woman much less beat a woman.<SNIP>

When I was in class for my security commission back in college (not at the college but a college job) the lesson they used was a (then) recent article of a security officer at a strip mall heard a woman scream and ran toward it. What he saw was a man straddling her, both covered in blood and the man was holding a large knife in both hands over her. He fired and killed the man who turned out to be LEO who was stabbed trying to arrest the woman. He had managed to get her down and had just extracted the knife when the security guy came around the corner. He was no-billed but I doubt he slept well.

All that says this, let your conscience guide you. We rarely have the option of an algorithmic analysis. You may be wrong but if you did what is immediately "right" but the only option to avoid this is to commit to never intervening and deal with the possibility of watching someone die in front of your eyes. I cannot make that commitment.

[jocat54]

Not to start any argruements--but if I have to pull a weapon and fire it--it will not be to wound someone and it probably won't be one shot.

No argument, but I do think you missed the intent.

“Stopping the threat” does not equal warning shots or “wounding shots” whatever the heck that might mean..

Use of your concealed Hand gun = decision to use deadly force.
Use of deadly force = being deadly, until the threat is stopped. If that point in time coincides with the death of the attacker, that is ok, if he is simply laying there bleeding heavily from non mortal wounds, but is incapacitated, then that also is a successful outcome to your decision to use deadly force in your self defense in order to “Stop the Threat”

I agree! If the attacker is killed while stopping the threat that is okay. I also agree that if they are laying there incapacitated (from one or several shots) I would not kill them, but if they still had a weapon and might be capable of using it--well that's another story.

[texastactical]

Distance would be your friend in this situation.

[kjolly]

A tactical aspect to consider in this situation is conversation of ammo. No matter how much you are carrying it may not be enough in a mob situation so don't waste it. Don't attract the mob to you by firing unless you feel threatened. A gun is just a expensive club once it is empty.
as I've indicated before, get your back to the wall and hope the momentum of the mob pushes past you.