correct me if Im wrong...

[i8godzilla]

If we could eliminate every Federal program that smacks in the face of States' rights, we could payoff the debt very quickly.

[Medic624]

I understand the issue we are having as far as our debt and lack of ability to reign in our spending based on entitlements. The point I was attempting to make is a concern surrounding the "Darned if ya do and Darned if ya don't" position the seated Republicans are in given the scenario in my OP. I'm simply concerned about the light this will place them in once this all pays out and the media report on what transpired to either raise the debt or not.

It has been my experience that many Americans do not educate themselves to the point of a workable understanding of the situation. Given the sheeple mentality and essentially a laziness on the part of many people im worried it will have a lasting effect and spill over into the upcoming Presidential campaign.

The people who are knowledgeable are the ones who are always ensuring they are making an INFORMED decision but sadly this is not the majority. Too many rely on the well, if it doesn't knock on my door then "whatever"...

A Flat Tax would solve many...many issues we are facing as long as there aren't loopholes for the cronies. But that is a pie in the sky wish... Just like Tort Reform and repealing of Obamacare!

[The Mad Moderate]

Yes you are wrong, Obama has bent over backwards to get a deal done and all the GOP has done is throw a fit, whine and scream no. I'm convinced that they want to crash the economy so they can use it in '12. Tax increases need to be part of the deal, taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan but there are still no jobs so the talking point that low taxes = more jobs is bogus. I am sick of this, I have never see anything like this from a political party before, nothing is every going to get done if the GOP keeps moving the goalpost.

[fishman]

Are you better off now than you were 1/20/09???

[Medic624]

Yes you are wrong, Obama has bent over backwards to get a deal done and all the GOP has done is throw a fit, whine and scream no. I'm convinced that they want to crash the economy so they can use it in '12. Tax increases need to be part of the deal, taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan but there are still no jobs so the talking point that low taxes = more jobs is bogus. I am sick of this, I have never see anything like this from a political party before, nothing is every going to get done if the GOP keeps moving the goalpost.

Okay, let's say you're correct...and it's not the other way around. To what end does this benefit either party?

[i8godzilla]

Yes you are wrong, Obama has bent over backwards to get a deal done and all the GOP has done is throw a fit, whine and scream no. I'm convinced that they want to crash the economy so they can use it in '12. Tax increases need to be part of the deal, taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan but there are still no jobs so the talking point that low taxes = more jobs is bogus. I am sick of this, I have never see anything like this from a political party before, nothing is every going to get done if the GOP keeps moving the goalpost.

BTW do you have link to Obama's proposal? Just asking............

[The Mad Moderate]

Obama does not have his own proposal he has been working with the senate "gang of six" to get a plan. Which was rejected before it was even made because the House GOP seems to be allergic to tax increases. I am truly amazed how many people are coned into voting for someone who does not have their interest at heart and only wants to protect bankers and billionaires

[i8godzilla]

Obama does not have his own proposal he has been working with the senate "gang of six" to get a plan. Which was rejected before it was even made because the House GOP seems to be allergic to tax increases. I am truly amazed how many people are coned into voting for someone who does not have their interest at heart and only wants to protect bankers and billionaires

You think that is the problem? Leaders have plans; all others follow.

When ALL Americans start paying taxes then I would say it is okay to raise taxes on those in upper income brackets. The one that is orchestrating the con is sitting in the Oval Office.

Both Democrats and Republicans are not happy with the state of affairs in Washington DC. About the only person that is happy is former President Carter. Now it seems he may not be remembered as being the worst president ever.

[74novaman]

taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan but there are still no jobs so the talking point that low taxes = more jobs is bogus.

Taxes are far from the only factor a businessman considers before hiring someone. Things like economic outlook, uncertainty about new tax and regulatory polices coming down the pipe, etc are all as big or bigger factors then the individual Tax rate.

But if you want to isolate taxes, here's a fun little exercise for you:

You own a business. If there is a possibility of a tax increase, are you going to open that new branch? Hire an extra couple of employees to stay open an extra 2 hours every night?

The only way a sane businessman answers those questions is if they will make him more money than he will lose to overhead like taxes. Since he's not sure how any new tax is going to affect his bottom line, he will delay hiring, and delay expansion.

Uncertainty kills hiring and growth. If businesses KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt they were facing no new taxes, we'd start to see the private sector improve.

The recovery hasn't happened because any smart business man is terrified of what this confessed anti business president is going to do to them regarding regulation and taxation.

Edit: And lower taxes are absolutely good for growth and business. Thats why states without a state income tax, like Texas and Florida aren't hurting as badly as places like New York, Massachusetts, etc. To say otherwise is silly.

[Blindref757]

You might say that it's oversimplified, or that I'm just a dumb redneck...but this debate is pretty easy for me. I've seen a few businesses get off the ground with government help, but I've also seen a lot of businesses fail when the government subsidy was cut off. I've worked a lot of jobs in a lot of different sectors...and I've never had a poor man sign my payroll check. If you want a vibrant economy, you leave the rich guy alone. He buys cars, yachts, and airplanes...and those are built by people who need him to spend that money so that they have a job. He also hires people to run his affairs and mow his yard, and handle his legal woes. His wife buys clothing and shoes, and his office buys computers and electricity. He donates money to various community and national charities of his choosing. The rich guy is absolutely the key to a strong middle class. The only people who hate rich guys are those who don't have what it takes to get there and those who are jealous of his success.

I've never seen someone on food stamps hire anyone...and it is rare for someone on food stamps to stop seeking some sort of assistance from the social system.

[boba]

Either way... whats a viable solution to avoid the default and NOT alienate your base there-by maintaining the faith of the people who spoke loud and clear when they voted in all the new republicans this last election...

Cowboy up and cut spending.

[snatchel]

You might say that it's oversimplified, or that I'm just a dumb redneck...but this debate is pretty easy for me. I've seen a few businesses get off the ground with government help, but I've also seen a lot of businesses fail when the government subsidy was cut off. I've worked a lot of jobs in a lot of different sectors...and I've never had a poor man sign my payroll check. If you want a vibrant economy, you leave the rich guy alone. He buys cars, yachts, and airplanes...and those are built by people who need him to spend that money so that they have a job. He also hires people to run his affairs and mow his yard, and handle his legal woes. His wife buys clothing and shoes, and his office buys computers and electricity. He donates money to various community and national charities of his choosing. The rich guy is absolutely the key to a strong middle class. The only people who hate rich guys are those who don't have what it takes to get there and those who are jealous of his success.

I've never seen someone on food stamps hire anyone...and it is rare for someone on food stamps to stop seeking some sort of assistance from the social system.

You may be a dumb redneck, but I like this and it makes a sensible, simple point. I guess I'll be a dumb reneck with you if it's ok

[VoiceofReason]

You might say that it's oversimplified, or that I'm just a dumb redneck...but this debate is pretty easy for me. I've seen a few businesses get off the ground with government help, but I've also seen a lot of businesses fail when the government subsidy was cut off. I've worked a lot of jobs in a lot of different sectors...and I've never had a poor man sign my payroll check. If you want a vibrant economy, you leave the rich guy alone. He buys cars, yachts, and airplanes...and those are built by people who need him to spend that money so that they have a job. He also hires people to run his affairs and mow his yard, and handle his legal woes. His wife buys clothing and shoes, and his office buys computers and electricity. He donates money to various community and national charities of his choosing. The rich guy is absolutely the key to a strong middle class. The only people who hate rich guys are those who don't have what it takes to get there and those who are jealous of his success.

I've never seen someone on food stamps hire anyone...and it is rare for someone on food stamps to stop seeking some sort of assistance from the social system.

And if fewer and fewer people can afford to buy his product because they are paying more and more taxes? Seems to me big business had no problem accepting corporate welfare.

[BigPa]

Obama does not have a plan of his own because he is not a leader and and does not know how to lead. This has proven over and over in the last 2 1/2 years. The Dems point fingers at the Repubs and the Repubs point fingers at the Dems. In the meantime, NOTHING gets done. It is both side's fault and it is the PRESIDENTS fault because he is THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. Nothing will ever change until all the waste is taken out of Government. All the little special projects should stop. I fail to see the significance of spend $5 million to know how many times a fly has sex. My pharmacist found $5000 in Medicare fraud. She noticed it was happening every month. She called the Medicare Fraud department to report. She was told they don't investigate anything under $20,000.... It is no wonder we are in such shape as we are. A business goes broke if it constantly spends more than it has coming in. The DOORS GET CLOSED. That is exactly what is going to happen to America. If I spend more that I have coming in, over and over again, I get kicked out of my house. Why can't our Government spend less than what is coming in? Because we have Senators and Representatives that have been for many years. They are more concerned with their contributors than WE THE PEOPLE....

[OldCurlyWolf]

Yes you are wrong, Obama has bent over backwards to get a deal done and all the GOP has done is throw a fit, whine and scream no. I'm convinced that they want to crash the economy so they can use it in '12. Tax increases need to be part of the deal, taxes are lower now than they were under Reagan but there are still no jobs so the talking point that low taxes = more jobs is bogus. I am sick of this, I have never see anything like this from a political party before, nothing is every going to get done if the GOP keeps moving the goalpost.

I. this belongs under politics.

2. the above statement is inaccurate. and Obama is a fool.