correct me if Im wrong...

[Medic624]

Ok...So, they have until August 2nd to make a move to keep the wheels turning ...

John Boehner claims he made a tentative deal to raise the debt limit but was reportedly adamant about NOT raising taxes. Now, in the 11th hour Obama and the Democrats allegedly changed the deal and wanted to add a tax increase to, ya know, "make them Fat Cats accountable"...

BUT... If we stalemate and the debt limit ISN'T raised and we default and interest rates increase we possibly lose our AAA rating, inflation gets worse the recession continues or gets deeper and the POTUS and his cronies get to say "Well, we had a viable plan but Boehner and the Republicans wouldn't go along and now they have done this to you." The media (given its history) won't use a level playing field and report both sides objectively especially not with the up-coming re-election campaign looming.

Now, if the Republicans cave and raise the debt limit and cow-tow to the reported "tax hike" to avoid default their base and the independents who are "paying attention" can/may see them as nothing better than what we just voted out and the democrats can say, "Well, sure we raised taxes but the Republicans must see it as what we needed to do because they went along with it. After all, according to what President Obama has told you it is our understanding that 80% WANT a tax increase to hold accountable those who make more then $250,000 pay their fare share."

Either way... whats a viable solution to avoid the default and NOT alienate your base there-by maintaining the faith of the people who spoke loud and clear when they voted in all the new republicans this last election...

As I understand it there doesn't seem to be much wiggle room...

[Teamless]

Good summary

isn't it nice when people play politics with OUR livelihood!

[Jumping Frog]

There is still plenty of cash flow to service the existing debt, so all the talk about defaulting is just scare mongering. The real issue is we cannot continuing spending on everything without raising new debt. They simply need to cut existing spending.

[OldCannon]

Ok...So, they have until August 2nd to make a move to keep the wheels turning ...

John Boehner claims he made a tentative deal to raise the debt limit but was reportedly adamant about NOT raising taxes.

Bohner's proposal was full of hope and sunshine, but even an Amoeba has more teeth than that bill: http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/tho ... ehner-plan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I do not trust "old guard" GOP Senators to come up with anything of substance. It will be interesting to see if the Senate (as a body) does anything other than point fingers at how the House has failed to do anything productive (except, you know, actually PASS a budget).

[RoyGBiv]

Sometimes the poo has to hit the fan in order for real change to happen.

I'm in favor of preventing the government from borrowing any more money. To heck with our credit rating. The deficit is ruining our credit rating together with our economy. There will be chaos short term, and lots of finger pointing, sure. But then the folks in charge will be forced to cut spending in a meaningful way. THAT will be the day the country gets on a better path for the LONG term.

The Federal government has their hands in everyone's business. They use subsidies, legislation and tax policy to pick the winners in far too many arenas. Why do we add ethanol to gasoline and subsidize the farmers that grow the corn when corn is selling at record prices and there's growing famine in the world? The budget deficit is EASY to fix. Give me a pen and a line-item-veto.

You know why Washington DC is safe from terrorists?
Because our lawmakers are causing us more problems than any act of terrorism could cause.

So..... NO MORE DEBT.!!

[BigPa]

The financial powers that be have already hinted that America could be downgraded no matter what. They have been saying that we could be downgraded simply because of the AMOUNT of our debt. If that is the case, if they raise the debt limit, it just assures our debt will only increase. So, either way, without cutting all the fat out of Government spending, I think we are headed to a downgrade.

[gigag04]

They simply need to cut existing spending.

Psssshhhh. You and your logic.

[gemini]

Quote
RoyGBiv:"I'm in favor of preventing the government from borrowing any more money. To heck with our credit rating. The deficit is ruining our credit rating together with our economy. There will be chaos short term, and lots of finger pointing, sure. But then the folks in charge will be forced to cut spending in a meaningful way. THAT will be the day the country gets on a better path for the LONG term."


This.

[b322da]

Medic,

You ask "correct me if I'm wrong...." To not appear offensive, which is not intended, I will take a shot at answering your critically important question: "Perhaps. Perhaps not."

This is a very difficult economics-mixed-with-politics question, and I suggest that the best answer to it is probably not quite as simple as some would make it appear, regardless of which side of the issue they are on. I guarandarnteeyou that I am not tempted to give you an easy "Yes" or "No," but I might offer a little food for thought.

Let me offer a couple of interesting links to a couple of national sources which maybe do not have a political axe to grind.

First: "The U. S. Will Not Default on August 2"

http://moneyland.time.com/2011/07/26/th ... ust-2/?xid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some new thinking here, fairly evenly critical of both sides in Washington.

And: "Smash the Ceiling"

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial ... surowiecki" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This one really appeals to me. It would, I think, terminate the game played so often by the buffoons in Washington, both the Dems and the Reps, and by both the White House and the Hill, the latter regardless of the political party in control of each, or part of each, and hold all their feet to the fire, put their money where their mouths are, and hopefully make them accept personal responsibility for their actions. I think it is no secret why the alternative this article suggests has, to my knowledge, received no public attention in Washington.

Elmo

[anygunanywhere]

Raising the debt ceiling to resolve the economic crisis is like raising the intoxication limit to cure drunk driving.

Anygunanywhere

[Blindref757]

The greatest thing that could ever happen is that our credit card (bond rating) be cut up. Barack is about to see his little spending spree come to a screeching halt because the debt is unsustainable...thus the credit rating will drop significantly...and effectively make borrowing impossible. Hell won't freeze over and the world economy won't come to an end. A correction should and likely will occur...but there is nothing wrong with a correction when something is as far off course as we are right now.

Taxing the rich is stupid because they don't pay taxes anyway...they pass them down the food chain to us in the middle class...or they don't hire us! Either way, we get the shaft! President Obama says that Americans want a balanced approach including tax increases...bull-o-nee! The only people who support taxing corporate jet owners are those who are on the public dole...the ones who are in bondage to the government because they are losers and won't work to get themselves out of the hole. Sorry...but that's how I feel. I know that the social safety net is vital to some who are disabled...but there are a lot of disability checks being cashed by people who's only disability is between their ears.

Enough is enough...and for the sake of my children and unborn grandchildren...we have to hit the brakes and get this back on track. If it means that I don't retire until 70, I guess I'll just have to make it work. My grandparents did it and were very happy people!

[RoyGBiv]

Raising the debt ceiling to resolve the economic crisis is like raising the intoxication limit to cure drunk driving.

Anygunanywhere

LOVE this analogy.... I'm gonna steal it, TYVM.

[RoyGBiv]

Some new thinking here, fairly evenly critical of both sides in Washington.

And: "Smash the Ceiling"

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial ... surowiecki" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This one really appeals to me. It would, I think, terminate the game played so often by the buffoons in Washington, both the Dems and the Reps, and by both the White House and the Hill, the latter regardless of the political party in control of each, or part of each, and hold all their feet to the fire, put their money where their mouths are, and hopefully make them accept personal responsibility for their actions. I think it is no secret why the alternative this article suggests has, to my knowledge, received no public attention in Washington.

Elmo

Saying that the NewYorker doesn't take sides?....

Regardless..... I most certainly don't buy this... I'm not sure why people don't see through it..

The only reason we need to lift the debt ceiling, after all, is to pay for spending that Congress has already authorized. If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, we’ll face an absurd scenario in which Congress will have ordered the President to execute two laws that are flatly at odds with each other. If he obeys the debt ceiling, he cannot spend the money that Congress has told him to spend, which is why most government functions will be shut down. Yet if he spends the money as Congress has authorized him to he’ll end up violating the debt ceiling.

Here's my take....

Congress has many tools at it's disposal to control spending/debt/etc. Until the 2010 election, Congress didn't have the political will to control spending, now it does. At least the House does. In 2012 another 33 Senators will be up for reelection and, G-d willing, the Tea party will help push the Senate majority into the Red along with the WH.... Until then, the debt ceiling is just a useful tool to rein in spending.

The notion that just because a previous Congress gave BHO a blank check, does not mean THIS Congress shouldn't use whatever tools they deem necessary to rein that spending in. The idea that just because a previous Congress approved spending that goes WAY beyond our ability to pay does not mean this Congress can't or shouldn't change it. The idea that Social Security, Medicare and the Military would be immediately affected by not increasing the debt ceiling is PREPOSTEROUS. The Dept of Education can go, almost in it's entirety. It's redundant and such matters should be handled by the states. The FDA and EPA are a sham, and can immediately be cut back to essential functions (monitoring). The EPA is far too involved in legislation by fiat. There are dozens of federal agencies and programs that can be lopped off immediately without affecting anyone's daily life........ Except the newly unemployed former federal employees. The Federal government has been so far out of its Constitutional authority for so many years, and we've all come to expect it. Cut off the funding and let's make it stop... Here... Now..

And a real fix won't come until we fix the tax code. You want more revenue, enact a flat tax. Close all the loopholes, end all deductions. Get the government out of the business of picking/influencing winners. Then everyone will pay THE SAME SHARE. The notion of paying a "Fair Share" is just plain bull. Who says what constitutes "Fair"?

Every business and every household on the planet faces the same limits. So should our government.
It's time to stop allowing our government to use our tax money, and burden our grandchildren, to pick winners based on the political winds.
Our government is playing politics and We The People are, generally, easily swayed.

I say no.... Let the chips fall where they may.
It'll be better in the long run.

[Medic624]

YES!!!!!

FLAT TAX .

[snatchel]

I suck with money, so I married an asian girl that can turn a penny into a quarter in week, then make that quarter last us two weeks. That said, if we simplified this and used a person as an example it would be like.. me having 3 credit cards with a combined total of 200,000 dollars debt, and about a 30,000 dollar annual income. If I wanted it fixed I would combine the debt, cut every credit card I had, set a budget that would rid of all excessive spending, and pay it off slowly but surely.

Im not sure how these things get so complicated with politics-but I would rather my generation suffer a little bit from not having luxury of extra money to spend than my future kiddos generation, and grandkids generation.

Then again, Im not a money person. Im not a politician. I vote for what I think is best with my limited knowledge and hope for the best