Detained by TSA

[mamabearCali]

No. They merely asked me if my confrontation with the TSA agent had become physical at any point. When I told them it hadn't, they said I could go.

You could have said--"well he kept me a disabled person standing in pain for X amount of minutes during which time I informed him that I was in pain and during the pat-down he touched my private areas so one could say he was quite physical with me. I, however, did not put my hands on him."

[C-dub]

From what I understand the OP was talking about how the TSA has set up a table out side the terminal and while people are boarding the plane they "randomly" select people.

They are actually "inside" the terminal within the secure area. They get you before boarding at the gate. These are the one's I've seen almost every time I have flown, which is not that often and hasn't been for about three years now. If they were outside the terminal and tried this with me I would call the police myself!

[AEA]

What about all the possible "terrorists" that this TSA Agent let walk by while he was illegally detaining a law abiding handicapped gentleman?

[C-dub]

Oh, and you know they never or almost never stop anyone of Arab descent for fear of being labeled racist or discriminating. Let's just check the kids and old people and handicapped to show how non-discriminating we are.

[Hoi Polloi]

Christian priests and religious (nuns and monks and such) I know talk about TSA and similar governmental agencies singling them out for all kinds of extra scrutiny every. single. time.

Apparently their cassocks and large cross necklaces look a little too Muslim to the standard screener, many of whom will make some sort of remark (sometimes derogatory) implying they believe the priests and religious are Muslim.

My Muslim friends don't fly very much, but based on the experiences of the Christians I know who are mistaken for Muslims, I'm inclined to think that TSA abuses its powers irrationally, inconsistently, and with all classes of peoples. They're just bad fruit and will make everyone who comes in contact with them sick.

[The Mad Moderate]

Oh, and you know they never or almost never stop anyone of Arab descent for fear of being labeled racist or discriminating. Let's just check the kids and old people and handicapped to show how non-discriminating we are.

That is completely false. Did you forget about the Imam's that were flying out of Chicago for a PEACE CONFERENCE and were detained after they were praying at the gate and fellow passengers said they felt "uncomfortable" . Many Muslims are profiled by the TSA, ask a Muslim how his trip through security is.

[C-dub]

Oh, and you know they never or almost never stop anyone of Arab descent for fear of being labeled racist or discriminating. Let's just check the kids and old people and handicapped to show how non-discriminating we are.

That is completely false. Did you forget about the Imam's that were flying out of Chicago for a PEACE CONFERENCE and were detained after they were praying at the gate and fellow passengers said they felt "uncomfortable" . Many Muslims are profiled by the TSA, ask a Muslim how his trip through security is.

I did not forget about them. They were not randomly selected. In your own post you even acknowledge the reason they were selected. It was wrong, but they were not randomly selected. I have not flown much since 9/11, but the first time was less than two months later and even to Boston Logan International. I might have flown about 20 times and have not seen one person of Arab descent randomly selected for extra screening. The only folks I have seen selected for this delay have been Caucasian children and seniors. I have not flown since the groping has begun. This is obviously an extremely small sample size, but that is my experience.

[Gr8_Outdoorsman]

Just to show that this group is not unanimous here, if I were a TSA agent with the statutory auhority this person no doubt had, and a passenger approached me with the attitude you have admitted to, I would have done exactly the same thing as was done to you. No question in my mind about this. You would not have gotten on that airplane without a thorough inspection and clearance by an LEO, and perhaps not in any event. The attitude you demonstrated had undoubtedly been a part of his training. You fit the classic picture of a potential serious problem, and in my opinion he did his duty.

Lots of luck with any appeal.

Elmo

I dont' fault anyone for not wanting to be "the one" to get randomly screened. I fly routinely and I get to be "the one" my fair share of the time. I'm polite and oblige by their requests. Everything has always gone smoothly.

The OP is completely to blame for being scrutinized to the level that they were. It is no different than someone being nervous, rude or resistant to any other law enforcement officer. It's just not a wise thing to do because it will draw more scrutiny to you. There are red flags all over the original post that would have caused the agent to have raised suspicions. I would guarantee that the entire process would have gone much quicker and smoothly if the OP would have been more calm.

Guys, I spent four years in the Middle East. If you think that every potential terrorist is going to have a similar appearance, you are sorely mistaken. They often have many of the same features as any other American (white, black, tan, etc...). Reading some of these posts, it looks like they are suggesting that we should only additionally screen the obvious looking Arab men.

[RottenApple]

That is completely false. Did you forget about the Imam's that were flying out of Chicago for a PEACE CONFERENCE and were detained after they were praying at the gate and fellow passengers said they felt "uncomfortable" . Many Muslims are profiled by the TSA, ask a Muslim how his trip through security is.

While I agree that C-Dub's statement was false, please don't try to use the "Flying Imams" as an example of Muslims being profiled. First, they were not stopped at the gate. They had actually boarded the plane without being searched. Second, let's not forget the fact that they asked for seat belt extenders that they 1) didn't need, 2) didn't use, 3) placed on the floor of the cabin in such a way that they could get at them easily and quickly. Third, they were praying loudly in an open public area. Every thing these Imams did was calculated to cause a disturbance and get as much attention as possible.

[Ameer]

What about all the possible "terrorists" that this TSA Agent let walk by while he was illegally detaining a law abiding handicapped gentleman?

Passengers have stopped more terrorists than TSA. Imagine how much more effective the passengers could be if the TSA didn't disarm them.

[mamabearCali]

I dont' fault anyone for not wanting to be "the one" to get randomly screened. I fly routinely and I get to be "the one" my fair share of the time. I'm polite and oblige by their requests. Everything has always gone smoothly.

The OP is completely to blame for being scrutinized to the level that they were. It is no different than someone being nervous, rude or resistant to any other law enforcement officer. It's just not a wise thing to do because it will draw more scrutiny to you. There are red flags all over the original post that would have caused the agent to have raised suspicions. I would guarantee that the entire process would have gone much quicker and smoothly if the OP would have been more calm.

Guys, I spent four years in the Middle East. If you think that every potential terrorist is going to have a similar appearance, you are sorely mistaken. They often have many of the same features as any other American (white, black, tan, etc...). Reading some of these posts, it looks like they are suggesting that we should only additionally screen the obvious looking Arab men.

The TSA is considered law enforcement officers?--then why don't they act like it.

These guys (the TSA) seem to think that they fall outside the rules and regulations that bind a law-enforcement officer. When was the last time you heard of a police officer pulling over a car, for no reason whatsoever, demanding the citizens get out and subjecting them and their whole family to "rigorous pat downs" that include putting fingers inside of their children's pant lines. You don't hear of that--why? Because if an officer tried that he would be the one facing charges. The closest thing we have to that is a drunk driving sting where everyone stops and they look at your license and your eyes and if they think something is off they make you take a breathalyzer test--no touching of the citizen allowed unless they are under arrest. Recently an officer arrested a woman filming the police from her front yard--what was the result of that--the charges are dropped and now the officer and the police department are facing civil suits. How many times have we heard the TSA wrongly claim "you can't film here.

The TSA are committing what would be in any other encounter considered a sexual assault and we are supposed to be polite and play nice nice? You may be ok with them touching your private areas (which btw makes you no safer whatsoever) but I and many others are not.

As for Islamic/not Islamic pat downs. How about the TSA keep their fingers off of everyone to start with and ask everyone a few key questions and then if more scrutiny is needed move on to other screening methods (bag examination/shoe removal with a rigorous pat down only occurring if there is at minimum a quantifiable reasonable suspicion that this person (not a hypothetical person some where out there) but this person standing in front of them is attempting to conceal something on their body. But wait that would make sense, and would not humiliate the majority of the flying public.

[C-dub]

That is completely false. Did you forget about the Imam's that were flying out of Chicago for a PEACE CONFERENCE and were detained after they were praying at the gate and fellow passengers said they felt "uncomfortable" . Many Muslims are profiled by the TSA, ask a Muslim how his trip through security is.

While I agree that C-Dub's statement was false, please don't try to use the "Flying Imams" as an example of Muslims being profiled. First, they were not stopped at the gate. They had actually boarded the plane without being searched. Second, let's not forget the fact that they asked for seat belt extenders that they 1) didn't need, 2) didn't use, 3) placed on the floor of the cabin in such a way that they could get at them easily and quickly. Third, they were praying loudly in an open public area. Every thing these Imams did was calculated to cause a disturbance and get as much attention as possible.

My statement might be statistically incorrect for all flights in the US, but not with regards to my experiences. How many times have we seen and heard about a child or an elderly person or pretty girl randomly selected for pat downs?

I'm loving the remarks about dumping fluids in a container all together and about someone detonating while in line. Both are possibilities I had not considered. And it either doesn't sound like the TSA has either or they don't care.

[sjfcontrol]

I'm loving the remarks about dumping fluids in a container all together and about someone detonating while in line. Both are possibilities I had not considered. And it either doesn't sound like the TSA has either or they don't care.

Security professionals have eyed the "big trash can full of bottles/fluids" since they started collecting them.

I can just imagine a scene from an updated version of the movie spoof "Airplane", where the TSA is confiscating BOMBS (ticking, lit fuses, etc) from islamic men standing in line, and cavalierly tossing them into a big trash can full of other bombs, before letting them pass to their gates...

[Gr8_Outdoorsman]

The TSA is considered law enforcement officers?--then why don't they act like it.

These guys (the TSA) seem to think that they fall outside the rules and regulations that bind a law-enforcement officer. When was the last time you heard of a police officer pulling over a car, for no reason whatsoever, demanding the citizens get out and subjecting them and their whole family to "rigorous pat downs" that include putting fingers inside of their children's pant lines. You don't hear of that--why? Because if an officer tried that he would be the one facing charges. The closest thing we have to that is a drunk driving sting where everyone stops and they look at your license and your eyes and if they think something is off they make you take a breathalyzer test--no touching of the citizen allowed unless they are under arrest. Recently an officer arrested a woman filming the police from her front yard--what was the result of that--the charges are dropped and now the officer and the police department are facing civil suits. How many times have we heard the TSA wrongly claim "you can't film here.

The TSA are committing what would be in any other encounter considered a sexual assault and we are supposed to be polite and play nice nice? You may be ok with them touching your private areas (which btw makes you no safer whatsoever) but I and many others are not.

As for Islamic/not Islamic pat downs. How about the TSA keep their fingers off of everyone to start with and ask everyone a few key questions and then if more scrutiny is needed move on to other screening methods (bag examination/shoe removal with a rigorous pat down only occurring if there is at minimum a quantifiable reasonable suspicion that this person (not a hypothetical person some where out there) but this person standing in front of them is attempting to conceal something on their body. But wait that would make sense, and would not humiliate the majority of the flying public.

If a passenger that was randomly selected is acting irate, irrational and resisting how should the TSA agent have acted?

Regarding police doing searches, it happens everywhere. Police place people in handcuffs and pat them down (i.e. touching them as you say) without placing them under arrest. Officers do this especially when there is only one of them and several potential suspects until they sort through things. It's called detaining. Do you really think that every single search warrant produces something illegal?

I'm not saying that I'm for the random searches. What I am saying is that they are just part of traveling by air right now. There are things in the works to try and get things changed, but nothing has changed as of yet. If you don't like it, don't fly. There's no need in giving the TSA agent a hard time. They didn't make the rules/laws and are doing what they've been told to do. The OP was rude and non-compliant from reading the post so the agent acted accordingly. There are more creative and constructive ways to drive change instead of causing a scene at the airport.

I'm done!

[mamabearCali]

The OP was not acting irrate or irrational or non compliant--he was acting like he was irritated and in pain. There is a difference and if the TSA agents can't tell the difference perhaps they need to be in a different position.

The pat down you described is called a Terry stop--and by law it must be minimal. The TSA used to do these sort of pat downs. I got one of those and while I found it most irritating they at least did not put their hands in my privates or in my pants. A police officer would also not require an elderly woman in a wheelchair to take off her depends in a terry-stop. Even the TSA says that their pat downs go beyond what a police officer would normally do in a terry-stop. Additionally you don't get pulled out of a crowd of people at a mall and are frisked by a police officer for nothing, usually you have been involved or are around a crime. That is not the case with people at airports. A police officer is not permitted to strip search just anyone anywhere, yet the TSA is allowed to do so with their scanners. So I don't think that these guys are living by the same rules as law enforcement so they do not get the same respect I give to those who actually do real law enforcement work.

"The price of flying right now" Actually it has been the price of flying for less than a year. It is because people say "don't like it don't fly" that the injustices at the airports continue unabated. "Just doing what I am told" hmmmm I remember somewhere that excuse not holding water when what you are "told" to do is a crime (and yes touching people's private areas without probable cause is a crime). As for it just being at the airports--well don't look now but they are coming to a bus station/metro near you soon (have already done that!).