Considering an AK

[Sputz]

I'm looking at a few different ak-47 out there and have no real experience with them and have a few questions. I am looking at 3 different ones.

1. Wasr-10 <---because its cheap it made it into the list
2. Siaga 7.56 --- Said to be able to use standard ak mags
3. A milled reciever w/ red-furniture rifle at my local shop I don't remember the name.

My main question is does having a milled receiver make it 300 bucks better. If I got a good wasr10 and checked it out is it best bang for buck or will I be wanting to replace it. Last question the siaga ak says it accepts standard mags should I assumed its been converted and shot take a close look at it before purchase or are they pretty reliable?

Sputz

[74novaman]

WASRs...check for canted sight blocks. You can get a good deal on a solid AK, but sometimes the monkeys at century are drinking on the job, I think.

Saiga: you're saying it accepts standard mags...has it already been converted? (has a pistol grip, etc) if so, its fairly easy to check for a bullet guide. A standard AK mag will lock into the saiga mag well, but won't feed so you need to physically inspect for a bullet guide. Field strip the saiga, this is what a bullet guide looks like:


I don't have a milled receiver so no experience there. Some consider them more desirable AKs though. Depending on who made that milled AK, it may very well be worth the extra 300 bucks, can't really help without knowing who made it, sorry.

[glbedd53]

The only one I have is a stamped Chinese that I got about 20 years ago. At that time I read in one of the gun mags that the stamped ones were more reliable than the milled ones. I don't remember the reason or whose opinion it was. I can tell you that it has never had a malfunction other than a slam fire the first time I shot it because I didn't know to get all the cosmoline away from the firing pin. Since then it has been perfect. And I have shot some pretty nasty Russian and Chinese rounds through it.

[Sputz]

Ok seems like the milled one is an american tactical and is actually a milled replica of a stamped receiver. What I was told is that it makes it a little more robust and since its a replica it will take standard ak parts easier. Price difference is 3 bucks more than a Wasr 10. So far all I have read is the only unfixable part of a wasr is the mag wobble. The saiga would be bought unseen so I guess I should just forget about that one but yes it is already converted with pistol grip.

Sputz

[74novaman]

Ok seems like the milled one is an american tactical and is actually a milled replica of a stamped receiver. What I was told is that it makes it a little more robust and since its a replica it will take standard ak parts easier. Price difference is 3 bucks more than a Wasr 10. So far all I have read is the only unfixable part of a wasr is the mag wobble. The saiga would be bought unseen so I guess I should just forget about that one but yes it is already converted with pistol grip.

Sputz

I have a Saiga, and have shot friends WASRs. I think the Saiga is a little higher quality finish and build then the WASR but if you inspect the WASR for the problems I mentioned, you can find quite nice quality ones for a very reasonable price.

Regarding the American tactical, AK this is what Jim Fuller (a very well respected AK builder and smith) had to say about them.

I have not singled out many guns that I consider unacceptable until now.
We got in a new gun this past week, a Polish kit built on a new US milled receiver with a new US barrel. The manufacturer name on the receiver was American Tactical. At first sight I thought it was a decent looking gun. I’m not a fan of milled guns but this one looked good.
First thing we do with any budget gun is check the headspace and this one was to loose. Normally an easy thing to fix. I went to remove the barrel pin and notice it was way to loose. We normally remove these pins with a 12 ton press but I was able to knock the pin out with a small punch and an 8 ounce hammer. If that wasn’t bad enough after the pin was removed the barrel literally fell out of the receiver, again barrels are normally a pressed in fit. This US made barrel was about 12 thousandths to small to fit properly. The receiver measured out to the right size (23mm) but the barrel was way undersize. Not only is this bad specs in the parts but anybody that assembled that gun and thought it was even safe either knows nothing about what they are doing or they are money hungry *edited for the 12 year old daughter rule* that should not be in the industry.

[Sputz]

Ok seems like the milled one is an american tactical and is actually a milled replica of a stamped receiver. What I was told is that it makes it a little more robust and since its a replica it will take standard ak parts easier. Price difference is 3 bucks more than a Wasr 10. So far all I have read is the only unfixable part of a wasr is the mag wobble. The saiga would be bought unseen so I guess I should just forget about that one but yes it is already converted with pistol grip.

Sputz

I have a Saiga, and have shot friends WASRs. I think the Saiga is a little higher quality finish and build then the WASR but if you inspect the WASR for the problems I mentioned, you can find quite nice quality ones for a very reasonable price.

Regarding the American tactical, AK this is what Jim Fuller (a very well respected AK builder and smith) had to say about them.

I have not singled out many guns that I consider unacceptable until now.
We got in a new gun this past week, a Polish kit built on a new US milled receiver with a new US barrel. The manufacturer name on the receiver was American Tactical. At first sight I thought it was a decent looking gun. I’m not a fan of milled guns but this one looked good.
First thing we do with any budget gun is check the headspace and this one was to loose. Normally an easy thing to fix. I went to remove the barrel pin and notice it was way to loose. We normally remove these pins with a 12 ton press but I was able to knock the pin out with a small punch and an 8 ounce hammer. If that wasn’t bad enough after the pin was removed the barrel literally fell out of the receiver, again barrels are normally a pressed in fit. This US made barrel was about 12 thousandths to small to fit properly. The receiver measured out to the right size (23mm) but the barrel was way undersize. Not only is this bad specs in the parts but anybody that assembled that gun and thought it was even safe either knows nothing about what they are doing or they are money hungry *edited for the 12 year old daughter rule* that should not be in the industry.

Thanks for the above, it was written a year ago so it was rather recent write up.
Sputz

[ELB]

WASRs are the budget models of the AK world, and they can come with some issues. If you want a "perfect" AK you will need to spend more $$ than WASRs usually go for.

If you are looking for a functionl AK, WASRs are perfectly fine. Some do come with flaws, but those flaws don't necessarily affect the function. For example, if you can still zero a WASR with a canted sight block, who cares if it canted? And canted sight blocks can fixed. Likewise, mag wobble is not necessarily a problem. Wobble from side-to-side usually does not affect function (and it also can be fixed or reduced). Wobble from front to back, tho, needs a closer look, as it may affect feeding.

My wasr came with too much front-to-back mag movement. The problem was the mag catch was too short and allowed the back of the magazine to move up and down. I ordered a new mag catch, a mag catch pin, and a spare pin, and replaced it myself. Took some fitting, but for less than $10 in parts, it was fixed. I spray painted over scrapes in the finish with a blast from $3 can of flat black paint (one of the advantages of an WASR finish!) and I was done. Great, reliable rifle.

Milled receivers are supposed to be more rugged and command higher prices,but there are thousands and thousands (millions) of stamped receivers, and they work fine.

One of the best places to find out everything you want to know about AKs is here: http://www.warriortalk.com/forumdisplay ... Aficionado" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Do a lot of reading there, this same question is discussed quite often.

Good luck!

[jeeperbryan]

I've owned both a WASR and a Saiga and I still have the Saiga. There's nothing wrong with the WASR as long as you can inspect it and make sure the front sight is straight. Other than that, magazine wobble is normal and is nothing to worry about. I loved the WASR, but it is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to AKs. I decided I wanted something a little nicer so I sold the WASR and bought an Arsenal SGL21 (basically a professionally converted Saiga). I absolutely love the SGL21. It cost me about $300 more than the WASR but IMHO it was worth it. Better furniture, muzzle brake, fit and finish.

In the end, its just a preference of how nice of an AK you want. They pretty much all work reliably, but you'll pay for better fit and finish.

[RECIT]

I've owned both a WASR and a Saiga and I still have the Saiga. There's nothing wrong with the WASR as long as you can inspect it and make sure the front sight is straight. Other than that, magazine wobble is normal and is nothing to worry about. I loved the WASR, but it is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to AKs. I decided I wanted something a little nicer so I sold the WASR and bought an Arsenal SGL21 (basically a professionally converted Saiga). I absolutely love the SGL21. It cost me about $300 more than the WASR but IMHO it was worth it. Better furniture, muzzle brake, fit and finish.

In the end, its just a preference of how nice of an AK you want. They pretty much all work reliably, but you'll pay for better fit and finish.

Nicely put. I think the Arsenal models are beautiful and well worth the money. They are even offering both 7.62 and 5.45 models with side folding stocks for a few more coins.

[RECIT]

Andy...no brake or comp on the end of the barrel? Issued that way and you didn't care or took it off for personal preference?

[Sputz]

Are their benefits to a folder? or can a traditional ak be converted into a folder and vic versa?

Sputz

[tbrown]

A folding stock has advantages for storage and transport in vehicles, plus they look cool.

[74novaman]

Are their benefits to a folder? or can a traditional ak be converted into a folder and vic versa?

Sputz

I think there are definite benefits to a folding stock AK. It makes for a very compact package, so an AK can be transported discretely (for example in a tennis racket bag) where a fixed stock rifle can't be transported easily without looking like a rifle in a bag. It also makes the AK usable in a vehicle.

The primary disadvantage to folding stocks for most people is that the underfolder stocks and wire side folders provide no cheek weld. That bothers some people, others are okay with it. I can still make hits with my AMD-65 side folder, and it has ZERO possibility of any kind of cheek weld. This can also be overcome by using a ace type sidefolding stock (like I have on my Saiga build..here's a pic)
or the AK-103 style full stock folders like Arsenal uses on some of their rifles.

Now, about converting back and forth.....the short answer is sort of.

Underfolding stocks, and most side folding wire stocks require a very specific rear trunnion. They cannot be changed over to other styles without major gunsmithing on the weapon.

There are many options to use a folder on an AK built for a fixed stock. What I did on the Saiga pictured above was cut off the rear tang for bolting in a fixed stock, and installed an internal receiver block. That allowed me to install the sidefolder. However, if I decided I didn't like the sidefolder, I could still bolt that stock (or even AR type stocks with an adaptor if you're into the weird stuff) onto the internal block with no sidefolding hinge attached.

As well, there are companies that make blocks that can bolt onto a fixed stock trunnion and allow a folder, but they look kind of weird to me. However, it is a great way to put a folder on a rifle without actually doing any modification to the gun, and allowing you to return to a traditional fixed stock.
Here's an example of that type of extension:


Clear as mud?

[ELB]

I put a sidefolding stock on my WASR 10/63 specifically to shorten it up. I used one made by Falcon that required no changes to the rear trunnion or tang, which is an advantage. The disadvantage is that it sticks out the back of the receiver (a little bit farther than the tang). Most of the east euro folding stocks required trimming off the tang, but this lets them mount flush with the rear of the receiver. I am happy with my arrangement, is still much shorter than it was with the wooden stock. (BTW, getting the wooden stock out of he receiver was not without some effort. They must have a gorilla jam that thing in there. The bolts holding it in are probably superfluous.)

I have not found getting a cheek weld to be a problem with this set up.

The underfolders seem to provide a particular challenge for cheekweld purposes. The "wire" side folders, which have a single tube coming back to a T-shaped butt piece, can have a attachment put on that provides a raised tube for cheek weld purposes. It is kind of an elongated "C" shape that clamps onto the existing tube. An example of one is here: http://www.onesourcetactical.com/wiresi ... piece.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My WASR came with a barrel nut tack welded on, instead of a flash hider. It looks much like he photo AndyC put up. I haven't fired it at night, altho I understand the fireball is supposed to be impressive. One of these days i will swap it out, but other things are on the "buy list" ahead of it.