Plano School District has 30.06 posted parking lots

[RPB]

PISD's response, when contacted about this exact issue several years ago, was that: They are not a governmental body, they are an "Independant" school district, and that school property is private property, and the posting is valid, and they will arrest and prosecute.

Everything I can find in Texas statutes indicates that an ISD is a government entity. "Independent" only means that they are not part of any other subdivision, such as a county or municipality. I guarantee that if someone challenged their ability to collect taxes, the next words out of their mouths would confirm that they are a government entity.
This is just another case of the arrogance of people in power.

[Heartland Patriot]

The arrogance and disregard for the laws of this state that the City of Plano and the Plano ISD are displaying is sickening. I do NOT wish anyone to have to be the test case. However, it seems very possible, even though it may not be inevitable, that they are going to faceplant the wrong guy, slap the bracelets on him and drag him to the station when he has done nothing wrong. THEN, when he DOES call his lawyer, the City will try everything in its power to tapdance away from it...and that will cost the taxpayers in that town a chunk of money. I just hope that IF this occurs, it gets plenty of press so that those arrogant city officials can be shown the door and be looking for new jobs, by the taxpaying voters...

[Kythas]

Personally, while I don't have my CHL yet, I carry in my vehicle under the MPA all the time. And on those rare occasions when I pick up my kids at school, I don't disarm. Of course, my kids' ISD isn't silly enough to post an unenforceable 30.06 sign at the entrance to their parking lots. But if they did, I'd have no problem driving right past it, sitting in line to pick up my kids, and then driving off.

Just be aware you are in violation of the Federal Gun Free School Zone act without a CHL. And while no one has been arrested for this only, you are still illegally carrying when you do this within 1000 feet of a school.

Another thing to be aware of: The CHL exemption to the GFSZA only applies if the CHL was issued by your State of residence and you are within that State. So if you live in Texas and are carrying in Texas with only a Utah CHL under reciprocity, you are still in violation of the GFSZA. If you live in Texas and have a Texas CHL, you'd be in violation within 1000' of a school if you were in Utah.

Put another way, reciprocity is an agreement between the several States. The Federal government does not recognize any reciprocity agreements.

[MasterOfNone]

Bottom line, I have carried numerous times on Plano school grounds, and will continue to do so if I not prohibited by the other statutes that limit me from doing so. If you are carrying properly, then they should not even know and there will be no problem.

I've heard this argument multiple times. If you're concealed... etc. What you're failing to consider is if you get into a fender bending in the car pool line in the school parking lot and the LEO thats directing traffic walks over to get ID's and insurance because the other driver is making a stink you're in hot water. Plano is going to send you to jail. Properly concealed or not. If you're good with that, awesome for the rest of us. I look forward to someone beating the rap and getting the signs removed. I only wish you didn't have to take the ride.

What would you do if the City of Plano decided that you could not carry anywhere in the city? Would you quit carrying to avoid the risk of the ride?

[Zoti]

Boy do I hate those signs. My son goes to PISD and if I pick him up I park off school limits and leave my gun in the car. I hate doing that. Especially since the law defines the premises as the building and not the parking lot.

How do we take action to get those removed???

[jmra]

Why carry at all? If you are going to disarm everytime you think a misinformed officer might arrest you for obeying the law then you will be disarmed most of the time anyway.

Example; people on this forum claim to have been told by a DPS lawyer that you would be in violation if you carried past a gun buster sign and could be arrested for doing so. Are you now going to disarm everytime you see a gun buster sign? You better because if not you could be arrested and take the ride.
Of course you are not going to disarm everytime you see a gun buster sign because the law is clearly on your side - just as it is in the school parking lot.

I believe that schools are about as big a target as there is and what better time to hit a school than during dismissal. If you carry to protect your family and you are within your legal rights to carry, I see two options;
1. Protect your family by exercising your right to carry and cross the legal bridge with the misinformed officers when you get to it.
2. Move your child to an ISD with properly informed officers so you do not have to worry about taking a ride for legal carry.

[G.A. Heath]

You can be arrested for not having the correct skin color inside a certain area, it can and has happened (not recently to my knowledge). Is it legal? No, but it can happen. Are there consequences for arresting someone for violating a law/ordinance that is invalid or unenforceable? Yes, and attorneys earn their money by ensuring those consequences happen.

My advice for resolving this issue is to first start a local media campaign pointing out the issues in a polite and professional manner. To start this you should send a letter to the editor of your paper, and keep doing so until its published. Next begin a campaign to attract the attention of other local media sources to the issue, you don't have to get them on board just yet, just make them aware. Once you have the media's attention you need to address the school board and advise them that their signs are invalid and why (use facts, not emotion). With this point made you can then address the issues that these invalid postings can cause (such as civil liabilities should someone be arrested due to the improper posting). If this fails then you need to concentrate on hitting the school board where it will be felt the most, in the polls on election day. You can do this by running for a seat yourself, helping someone who is more willing to respect state law get elected, and so on.

If you see something that is wrong and you feel a need to do something about it, then do something that will work. To have a political effect you need an audience, that is why you need to get the media's attention, then you need to utilise that audience for maximum effect. I would also suggest contacting certain gun rights organisations for advice on dealing with the media and government bodies. Just remember that you need to start small and build momentum and mass to be effective.

[RHenriksen]

Ron, excellent application of the 'blink' tag! :-)

Fedaykin,

You need to read the statute in it's entirety. Notice subsection i of 46.035:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Ron

[Fedaykin]

What would you do if the City of Plano decided that you could not carry anywhere in the city? Would you quit carrying to avoid the risk of the ride?

Yes, I would quit carrying in Plano until the issue was resolved, and so would the majority of poeple. My statement is supported by the fact that no one has been arrested in the city of Plano for violating this Plano's implied 'ordinance'. If you're willing to do it, I support you in your cause. By all means, go for it. I've already served my time. After serving 8 years in the military in 2 foreign countries as an Army Combat Engineer, I am obvisously willing to put myself in harms way for what is right.

CHL holders are supposed to obey the law and de-escalate confrontations. If a CHL holder knowingly enters an area a Police Department has specifically stated is off limits, I would call that an escalation. A defiant challenge.

I believe a better way to resolve the issue is through legal channels, not by sitting in a jail cell and having your license revoked.

[Fedaykin]

2. Move your child to an ISD with properly informed officers so you do not have to worry about taking a ride for legal carry.

I agree with you sir, my kids don't attend Plano ISD any longer. I can drive right up to their school and drop them off at the door with my trusty M&P on my hip. I took issue with the signs and started researching the the legality of the signs as a general cause FOR OTHER PEOPLE, not for myself.

I brought up the issue to this forum because I believed Charles and company have legal clout and could bring some attention to the issue. It's a bit disappointing having to defend my own integrity just becuase I brought up the issue.

[speedsix]

...there's more than one way to fight for your country...and thank you very much for your service...when the gooberment ignores the law, thinks they are above it, and twist and misapply it to exert their will over the people who voted to have the law passed for THEIR benefit...that is a direct attack on what made our country great...being free men who could do anything not prohibited by LAW...and it's well worth the fight...you were willing to put yourself in harm's way overseas for all our benefit...some of us are willing to "make the point" with local oppressors who think they're above the law, too...and our risk is much less than the one you took for all of us...
...to my knowledge, this hasn't been necessary in Texas...but in many CC states, cities have been sued and for large amounts of money because officers, city attorneys, etc. were challenged for misapplying the CC laws...and persecuting citizens who were simply obeying the laws...that's our system...and it only works if we make it work...instead of cowing down before "the authorities", who, by the way, get their authority from WE THE PEOPLE...

[jimlongley]

What would you do if the City of Plano decided that you could not carry anywhere in the city? Would you quit carrying to avoid the risk of the ride?

Yes, I would quit carrying in Plano until the issue was resolved, and so would the majority of poeple. My statement is supported by the fact that no one has been arrested in the city of Plano for violating this Plano's implied 'ordinance'. If you're willing to do it, I support you in your cause. By all means, go for it. I've already served my time. After serving 8 years in the military in 2 foreign countries as an Army Combat Engineer, I am obvisously willing to put myself in harms way for what is right.

CHL holders are supposed to obey the law and de-escalate confrontations. If a CHL holder knowingly enters an area a Police Department has specifically stated is off limits, I would call that an escalation. A defiant challenge.

I believe a better way to resolve the issue is through legal channels, not by sitting in a jail cell and having your license revoked.

When I pointed out to Plano PD that their signage was not compliant, they fixed it.

[AlaskanInTexas]

Has anyone considered approaching the Collin County District Attorney about requesting an opinion from the Texas Attorney General as to whether Plano ISD's interpretation is correct? While an opinion is not binding law, I would be shocked if the school district doesn't back down if the Texas AG finds their interpretation incorrect. I don't think anyone needs to go to jail to get this resolved.

[fannypacker]

The city of Plano shows total disregard of state law. For years they had 30.06 signs on their libraries. I ignored the signs because I knew they were illegal and they were finally removed.

[srothstein]

My advice for resolving this issue is to first start a local media campaign pointing out the issues in a polite and professional manner. To start this you should send a letter to the editor of your paper, and keep doing so until its published.

I like this idea, but with one minor change. I would start by writing to the ISD Superintendent and the president of the school board. I would quote the law to them and ask them to remove the signs or explain why not. The trick here is to get them to state that they are not a governmental agency in writing.

Then when I wrote to the newspaper, I would add the question of how a non-governmental agency has the authority to tax you. That might help get the editor's attention and see the letter printed or more investigation by the paper.