How much of a hassle to fly with a firearm? ***UPDATE***

[Chris]

I'm changing jobs so HR218 no longer applies to me, but as luck would have it, my CHL came in yesterday; 25 days earlier than they said it would. since the state i'm going to has reciprocity, i'm going with some insurance. i'll be there for 3 weeks.

i know how it has to be transported, etc, but how much crap would i have to take after declaring it to the screener? do they actually inspect it? i'd prefer no one but the screener and i know i have it in the checked baggage.

[stevie_d_64]

I started a recent thread in the general section above...

There was some outstanding discussion, and the expertise relaqted by one of our other participants here "jimlongley" was in my opinion, a great resource to ask questions too...

I recommend you PM him and let hime know of any questions you have, as he is a TSA guy...He's a by the book person, and I think thats a good thing...

So this "new" thing is a traveling job??? Or are you moving to that State???

[yerasimos]

I believe you are required to declare the firearm to both the ticketing agent and the baggage screener(s). The ticketing agent will probably give you a little tag for you to sign and date stating that the firearm(s) is/are unloaded. You will have to have this tag placed inside the luggage with the firearm(s). If you have to carry the luggage to the screeners yourself, you will want to tell the screener which pieces of luggage have guns or ammunition in them.

The amount of "crap" you will have to put up with will depend upon 1) the professionalism (or lack thereof) of the ticketing agent &/or baggage screeners; and 2) whether they want you to be present when they screen your luggage. These two factors can vary greatly from airport to airport. Luckily, all of my experiences so far have been relatively painless.

If you can, I would suggest going to the airport the day before your flight, (in person, preferably around the same time of day your flight the next day leaves), go to the airline's ticket counter during a lull in traffic and asking (nicely) what their procedure is for checking firearms. Each ticket counter may have their own interpretation of the airline's policy. Try to comply with the FAA regs, AND the airline's official policy, AND any "extras" peculiar to that ticket counter, so as to increase your chances of breezing through these snares. 8)

In brief: do your homework, keep your temper in check and your paperwork organized, arrive at the ticket counter with your gear 100% ready for check-in, and let the chips fall where they may. (And don't forget to drop your pocketknife into the checked baggage.) :D

[jimlongley]

I'm changing jobs so HR218 no longer applies to me, but as luck would have it, my CHL came in yesterday; 25 days earlier than they said it would. since the state i'm going to has reciprocity, i'm going with some insurance. i'll be there for 3 weeks.

i know how it has to be transported, etc, but how much crap would i have to take after declaring it to the screener? do they actually inspect it? i'd prefer no one but the screener and i know i have it in the checked baggage.

The firearm must be declared to the ticket agent, ONLY.

TSA prefers that the ticket agent or passenger notify them, but that's a courtesy. It is a GOOD idea for the person who has checked a firearm to stay nearby while the baggage goes through screening, because the case the gun is in MUST be locked when it leaves the ticket agent (in most cases the screening takes place after the bag is checked.

The case can be a stand alone locked case, usually a pretty sure giveaway when a long gun is involved although I have seen guitars, plumbing equipment, surveying equipment, and even just dirty clothing, in obvious gun cases.

The case may also go inside another, such as a suitcase or trunk, and as long as the case the gun is in is locked the bag does not HAVE to be. If it was me I would lock both.

If the gun is inside a hard sided suitcase, that American Tourister that the gorilla jumped on in the ad 20 years or more ago is a good example, then the gun does not have to be in its own case as long as the baggage is properly locked.

Screeners are barred by TSA rules from handling firearms - not to say it doesn't happen, there are stupid people everywhere in the world and TSA hired some of them, but in the vast majority of cases your firearm will not be handled even if it sets off the alarm on the x-ray machine, which some of them do.

Depending on the equipment settings, firearms may or may not register as a suspicious item that the computer identifies for further investigation. In my experience about 50% "alarm" and the rest just get passed through with hardly a comment.

Some of us take a great deal of pride in being able to identify various arms by their x-ray profile and often ask the customer if we have got it right.

We are not on the lookout for firearms in general and, in most cases, don't care if it was declared. If it was not declared and it passes the x-ray screening, we are not likely to check it further. OTOH, if it appears to be loaded, the passenger is likely to be talking to a LEO before too long, whether it alarmed or not, and it is amazingly easy to tell.

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

The above applies generically to TSA and all airports and specifically to the airport that I work in and many that I personally know of. It is subject to differing conditions, such as: if you are flying out of Aberdeen SD, you will find that the ticket agent, baggage handler and pilot are frequently one and the same, and THE TSA screener works a multiple split shift, only when there are actually planes present to be screened and things may get done a little differently; If you are flying through a major metropolitan airport where all baggage screening is conducted out of the public view, things will be different too.

I have seen a lead screener, who should know better, handle my firearm, while I protested that it shouldn't be handled (see other thread.)

I and many screeners like me have a long abiding interest in firearms and enjoy chatting with our customers about their guns as they pass through, but we also have some who could care less, some who are truly anti-gun, and a few who are total idiots when it comes to guns. Thankfully the latter are few.

I would go along with yerasimos, with maybe an exception to travelling to the airport to check how they want it done, you should be able to get that from the airline's web site, but there is no guarantee that any two ticket agents will react the same way, so treading lightly and carrying along printed copies of the airline's policy along with the federal regs and TSA rules is a good idea.

AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't fly through any NY metropolitan area airports with a gun.

When you check your gun, depending on the airline, you will most likely have to open the case in a public area and show the ticket agent, who often doesn't know what they are looking at, that your gun is unloaded. Other people WILL see your gun.

[Chris]

So this "new" thing is a traveling job??? Or are you moving to that State???

no. i've been a police officer for the last 10 years. i finally got my degree and i'm going to work for an insurance company. they're sending me out of state for training for a couple weeks. in preparation for the switch, i got my CHL to cover me until i get picked up as a reserve somewhere.

thanks for the info. i'm flying out of DFW airport; i've trained many of their officers and am friends with a couple of the brass types. if i have issues, i can call them on their cell phones, but it's been a long time since i've flown and i've never carried a weapon with me. i don't forsee any problems, just wanted to know if they'd make a scene about it.

with all the CHL reciprocity now, it seems like there would be quite a few firearms on planes now. i'm going to lock the gun in it's original plastic case and put a stop in the barrel so you can clearly see it's not loaded. i've got a plastic ammo container that will hold the rounds individually to keep them from moving around. should easily show up on a screener.

[Jim101]

Good information, now what if you want to take some ammo with you? Just about a mag's worth.. Can it be in the same suitcase? Should it be in a special box or what?
Thanks again,
Jim

[jimlongley]

According to the relevant Federal law, you may carry ammo in the same BOX as the gun, but don't have it in magazines. The law states that it must be in a suitable container, quoted on the TSA web site as:
# Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
# Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
# The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above.


Will you run into TSA people who either don't know this, misquote it, or don't agree with it, yes you will, which is the reason I recommend printing and carrying along the relvant sections of the TSA web site and the CFR.

It would appear from the above that you could have a mag in a mag pouch (holster) and satisfy the covering, but an arguement could be made that unless the mag pouch had a cover, rather than say the ones favored by action shooters that just shroud the bullet end of the mag, then it is not "securely covered."

[stevie_d_64]

I have a suggestion...

And unfortunately it'll involve some work from "jimlongley"...

Could you put together a similar synopsis like the two posts you did here on this thread and post them in a separate thread when you gfet the chance...

I honestly have to say that with the "inside" and very detailed information you put together lately on this subject is by far the absolute best guideline anyone can have to review before flying with declared firearms...

Your commentary and explanations, in your official capacity, offer a real comfort to those considering flying for the first time with firearms...And those who have done so in the past, like me, who need to know if we can do it better, smarter and faster next time...

Once thats done, I think it needs to be converted to a "locked, sticky" thread with a standout title for easy recognition, and possibly turn it into a "general" topic by itself...

Too many times I have made observations and been involved in too many discussions about this issue, and its good to finally have someone who really knows what the deal is...

Once this happens, this would be something I would print out and have tucked away somewhere to review before taking a trip like this...

There is always something new to learn...

I really think this would be a good thing to have on our site...

[Jim101]

Great idea Steve...A sticky area for useful information..

Jim

[gigag04]

+1 on the flying w/ gun sticky.

[anygunanywhere]

i know how it has to be transported, etc, but how much crap would i have to take after declaring it to the screener? do they actually inspect it? i'd prefer no one but the screener and i know i have it in the checked baggage.

Chris,

Based on my experience, the ticket agents are not likely to dish out any "crap". The absolute only airport where a ticket agent did not bend over backwqrds for me was Philadelphia, Continental Airlines. All that I did was show her the Continental rules, TSA rules, and once a much wiser, more experienced agent verified the facts, the operation went smoothly.

The agents will inspect your weapon to see if it is unloaded, and that the ammo and weapon are not in the same container. They will either escort you to TSA or take your bag to TSA, depending on the airport. If the agent takes your bag to TSA, be prpared to wait until the bag is cleared. Checking firearms adds about 10 minutes to your check in time.

The biggest issue I have seen is TSA's nasty habit of wanting to inspect your firearms, which as I understand it is against the rules. Up to you to object. So far, though, I would rate the experience of flying with weapons a very pleasant experience, well worth the "trouble"' since I like being armed when possible. I highly recommend it. I am winging to Baton Rouge tomorrow, packing.

[ElGato]

Great idea, I get this question all the time in class and give the standard generic answer, this kind of information is what this forum is all about for me.
Tomcat

[stevie_d_64]

I think putting together the information from the perspective of a TSA person who is sympathetic to our side of the issue, and understands all the whys and why nots of going through this will certainly give us the tools needed to make this process certainly a lot smoother for everyone...

And the more that we do this, the more people can get used to the idea and not have this institutional, hoplophobic attitude, prevalent in society today...

My one question or rub...And "jimlongley" can put this into some sort of FAQ format...

Can you stop a TSA agent from handling your firearm if they proceed to do so, against TSA regulations???

And by doing so, can you be detained for objecting (at that time) to their doing this, when they should know better???

I understand from the previous discussions, that it may be best to allow them to do what they want, and then file a formal complaint, which may eventually trickle down a reminder of the regulations...

So my second question/comment may be a bit argumentative, but not hostile towards the system in general...

If we are to be required to, and without question, totally comply with the rules and regulations to fly with firarms...I think it should be an immediate and comprehensive compliance on the other side of the counter as well...

Not that I am blowing smoke or anything, but from what Jim says, I believe he should be promoted to the overall training coordinator for the TSA and allowed to institute "proper" training of all screeners...

I bet he'd like the $$$$$$ as well...

And thats not just because he's a gun nut like I am...I think within a very short period of time, issues like this will certainly be a thing of the past, and not generate other issues that effect the flying public in general...

[Jim101]

Would it do any good to show them your CHL? Just a thought..

Jim

[stevie_d_64]

Would it do any good to show them your CHL? Just a thought..

Jim

I don't think that will do anything but confuse the process...Flashing or displaying that licence may be mis-interpreted as you trying to pass as law enforcement or some other form of authority...Or something to that effect...Who knows...Why chance it...

I'd just smile and gut through it...

My take, is the less they know about you, and them only concentrating on the task at hand is the best thing...