"It's a lead pump...."

[JP171]

ok so lemme see, if you are at a facility and a school group comes in then no you do not have to leave if you are carrying nor do you have to disarm, if the place is scheduled to have a school sanctioned function you may not enter while carrying, however this does not apply to multi funtion facilities and you are attending a function that sactions or allowes you to carry for example you would not have to disarm if you were staying in a hotel that just happens to be hosting a graduation ceremony for a local HS, however if you went into that room then you would be in violation, this part of the law is geared more towards things like when a interscholasitc group is hosting a game or function(cheer competition, band competition) at a normally public facility that wouldn't be off limits except for the school sanctioned function. you are not required to run away just because a school bus shows up in the parking lot of your favorite mickey D's not even in Pasadena

[esxmarkc]

Also, 46.03 says "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly". This is a pretty high standard to meet if a school sponsored function just happened to show up where you are...

LOL Ya beat me to it - just edited my post to reflect that!!!

[chasfm11]

I was jogging down the jogging trails the other day (not on school property) and the entire 7th grade P.E. class jogged past me. Does that mean I was breaking the law? I don't know what classifies as an "event" in the eyes of the law.

I have this same thing every day that I ride my bike. The bike trail (created and maintained by the Town) forms the back boundary of the school property. I read this:

on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted

I don't meet them on the bike path often but the school kids are in athletic uniforms with the school name on them and have their teachers with them when I see them.

It this splitting hairs? Probably. Is it likely that I would run into a circumstance where I was questioned by an LEO during my bike ride? No, probably not likely at all. OTOH, It is possible. I would judge it to be a greater risk to me than being found with my gun and ammo on COE property while we are traveling in the RV (although I would be following the Federal firearms transport guidelines, I'm not sure that it would matter if I were discovered.). I'm willing to take the COE risk. Thus far, I've avoided the bike path one. It would only take one militant LEO to cost me a lot of money on legal fees. If the local LEOs could give me a ride for carrying in Grapevine Mills Mall (and they are on record as saying that might), the bike path through the school yard seems like a more clear cut situation against me that the invalid mall 30.06 does.

[ScottDLS]

ok so lemme see, if you are at a facility and a school group comes in then no you do not have to leave if you are carrying nor do you have to disarm, if the place is scheduled to have a school sanctioned function you may not enter while carrying, however this does not apply to multi funtion facilities and you are attending a function that sactions or allowes you to carry for example you would not have to disarm if you were staying in a hotel that just happens to be hosting a graduation ceremony for a local HS, however if you went into that room then you would be in violation, this part of the law is geared more towards things like when a interscholasitc group is hosting a game or function(cheer competition, band competition) at a normally public facility that wouldn't be off limits except for the school sanctioned function. you are not required to run away just because a school bus shows up in the parking lot of your favorite mickey D's not even in Pasadena

My understanding of (credible) arguments that have been made previously in this forum are that: 46.03(a)(1) strongly implies that it is referencing school property, or property under the exclusive control of the school for the event.

Eg. They rented out the whole Putt-Putt and you showed up to participate. They rented the meeting hall of the Hilton and you went in there (hall, not your room) to watch the graduation. Probably in violation.

You happened to show up at the Galleria Mall when a school bus parked in the parking lot a mile away...or even 10ft away...NO.

[JP171]

ok so lemme see, if you are at a facility and a school group comes in then no you do not have to leave if you are carrying nor do you have to disarm, if the place is scheduled to have a school sanctioned function you may not enter while carrying, however this does not apply to multi funtion facilities and you are attending a function that sactions or allowes you to carry for example you would not have to disarm if you were staying in a hotel that just happens to be hosting a graduation ceremony for a local HS, however if you went into that room then you would be in violation, this part of the law is geared more towards things like when a interscholasitc group is hosting a game or function(cheer competition, band competition) at a normally public facility that wouldn't be off limits except for the school sanctioned function. you are not required to run away just because a school bus shows up in the parking lot of your favorite mickey D's not even in Pasadena

My understanding of (credible) arguments that have been made previously in this forum are that: 46.03(a)(1) strongly implies that it is referencing school property, or property under the exclusive control of the school for the event.

Eg. They rented out the whole Putt-Putt and you showed up to participate. They rented the meeting hall of the Hilton and you went in there (hall, not your room) to watch the graduation. Probably in violation.

You happened to show up at the Galleria Mall when a school bus parked in the parking lot a mile away...or even 10ft away...NO.

ok I thought thats what I said, maybe I wasn't clear sorry if I mis stated what I meant

[ScottDLS]

ok so lemme see, if you are at a facility and a school group comes in then no you do not have to leave if you are carrying nor do you have to disarm, if the place is scheduled to have a school sanctioned function you may not enter while carrying, however this does not apply to multi funtion facilities and you are attending a function that sactions or allowes you to carry for example you would not have to disarm if you were staying in a hotel that just happens to be hosting a graduation ceremony for a local HS, however if you went into that room then you would be in violation, this part of the law is geared more towards things like when a interscholasitc group is hosting a game or function(cheer competition, band competition) at a normally public facility that wouldn't be off limits except for the school sanctioned function. you are not required to run away just because a school bus shows up in the parking lot of your favorite mickey D's not even in Pasadena

My understanding of (credible) arguments that have been made previously in this forum are that: 46.03(a)(1) strongly implies that it is referencing school property, or property under the exclusive control of the school for the event.

Eg. They rented out the whole Putt-Putt and you showed up to participate. They rented the meeting hall of the Hilton and you went in there (hall, not your room) to watch the graduation. Probably in violation.

You happened to show up at the Galleria Mall when a school bus parked in the parking lot a mile away...or even 10ft away...NO.

ok I thought thats what I said, maybe I wasn't clear sorry if I mis stated what I meant

I thought you probably meant it that way...but I had a few more points to add to the thread and used your post to reply. Are you still in Iraq? (saw your location under your "handle")

-Scott

[JP171]

yep still here in sand land, comming back to texas in a few days for leave, gonna take a much needed break. yea no problem on the expansion of the ideas, just wanted to make sure that I wasn't making anyone uncomfortable with what I said

[Bullwhip]

Local FFA baked potato sale in a bank parking lot 1 mile from HS campus and I just wanna use the ATM, yah pretty sure I'm safe.

Hard to get into walmart most of the year without passing kids begging money to help their team "go to state" or something.

[zero4o3]

Also, 46.03 says "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly". This is a pretty high standard to meet if a school sponsored function just happened to show up where you are...

LOL Ya beat me to it - just edited my post to reflect that!!!

now your definition of a school sponsored activity may differ from mine, but with the example we used earlier, if your playing putt putt, and the entire 3rd grade class shows up, and your aware its a school event, I think you fall into "knowingly"

and if you were exposed some how you would likely be explaining your case infront of a jury

I doubt the police officer who is arresting you is going to care that you think the law implies property under the direct control of the school.

to each their own though, I doubt I will ever be anywhere a school activity is being held

[Teamless]

, if your playing putt putt, and the entire 3rd grade class shows up, and your aware its a school event, I think you fall into "knowingly

Unless your kid was in that 3rd grade class, and you "just happened to be there", well then yes, you should have known and need to disarm, but if I (no kids) go to Putt Putt and 97 school buses show up with kids, all showing Clear Creek School District on them and signs saying "We are a school sponsored event", I would continue to play on and carry my weapon, I am in no way affiliated with them. Therefore the activity I AM DOING, is not school sponsored, nor affiliated with them whatsoever.

[zero4o3]

, if your playing putt putt, and the entire 3rd grade class shows up, and your aware its a school event, I think you fall into "knowingly

Unless your kid was in that 3rd grade class, and you "just happened to be there", well then yes, you should have known and need to disarm, but if I (no kids) go to Putt Putt and 97 school buses show up with kids, all showing Clear Creek School District on them and signs saying "We are a school sponsored event", I would continue to play on and carry my weapon, I am in no way affiliated with them. Therefore the activity I AM DOING, is not school sponsored, nor affiliated with them whatsoever.

a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

I am having trouble locating the exception for not having a kid, I see were it says if you KNOW a school sponsored event is going on and your in the same building / on the same grounds of it your in violation, I just cant find the exception for not having kids. could you post it?

[Teamless]

could you post it?

Nope, cant post it, as obviously it is not there.

If you are at the movie theater watching Kung Fu Panda 2, and it walks a school bus full of people, do you leave?
If you are at the zoo, and there are school kids daily at the zoo, on school trips, do you leave?
If you are McDonald's having a bite to eat, a school bus shows up with kids returning from a sporting event, do you leave?

In all 3 above, no, I do not leave.

It all comes down to Intent.
I was not there with the intent to be part of the school sponsored event.

They showed up, when I was there. I didn't ask them to come and can't tell them to leave. But since I am not with them, there is no association and no intent.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm not knowingly going to attend an "activity sponsored by a school" while carrying but I'm not going to dive out a window if a random one shows up where I'm at.

Exactly. There is no way on God's green earth that anyone can make it stick in court, otherwise ALL potential locations where a school sponsored activity might suddenly appear would suddenly become arbitrarily off-limits to CHLs whose presence is in no way related to the school activities in question. That is absurd on its face, and it flies in the face of the legislative intent of those who passed the laws in the first place. If that were the real standard, it would effectively disarm all CHLs, for fear that an unforeseen school activity happened to show up where they were eating/buying gas/driving/borrowing library books/visiting museums/etc., ad infinitum. Can you imagine? If this was literally the legislative intent, then I would have to stop pumping gas into my car and leave in a hurry just because a school bus full of teenagers pulled in long enough to let somebody use the restroom. That's crazy. Don't try to sell me crazy, I'm all full up.

If I am sitting in a pizza joint, minding my own business, and I was there first, and some booster group shows up out of the blue, I'm not leaving. THEY can leave. I'm finishing my pizza and rootbeer before I go anywhere.............not to mention that "concealed is concealed."

[zero4o3]

I'm not knowingly going to attend an "activity sponsored by a school" while carrying but I'm not going to dive out a window if a random one shows up where I'm at.

Exactly. There is no way on God's green earth that anyone can make it stick in court, otherwise ALL potential locations where a school sponsored activity might suddenly appear would suddenly become arbitrarily off-limits to CHLs whose presence is in no way related to the school activities in question. That is absurd on its face, and it flies in the face of the legislative intent of those who passed the laws in the first place. If that were the real standard, it would effectively disarm all CHLs, for fear that an unforeseen school activity happened to show up where they were eating/buying gas/driving/borrowing library books/visiting museums/etc., ad infinitum. Can you imagine? If this was literally the legislative intent, then I would have to stop pumping gas into my car and leave in a hurry just because a school bus full of teenagers pulled in long enough to let somebody use the restroom. That's crazy. Don't try to sell me crazy, I'm all full up.

If I am sitting in a pizza joint, minding my own business, and I was there first, and some booster group shows up out of the blue, I'm not leaving. THEY can leave. I'm finishing my pizza and rootbeer before I go anywhere.............not to mention that "concealed is concealed."

maybe what you consider a school sponored activity and what I do differ, I dont recall ever taking a tour of cici's for a class field trip just like I dont recall ever being anywhere that a school sponsored activity was taking place.

to be clear, I am not trying to say I think that if you see school kids at your location that location is off limits

could you post it?

Nope, cant post it, as obviously it is not there.

They showed up, when I was there. I didn't ask them to come and can't tell them to leave. But since I am not with them, there is no association and no intent.

in your previous post you said that if you where in a building and it met what you felt to be the requirements of a school sponored activity you wouldnt leave because you were not part of the group, I just dont understand why you think being part of the group is a requirement to be in violation

[Teamless]

I just dont understand why you think being part of the group is a requirement to be in violation

I can't give you any more scenario's, I have given plenty.

If you choose to leave a location because a school bus showed up, and you had nothing to do with the school event, its up to you.

Me, no way.
it does not make sense that if I am at the Houston Zoo, and was there at 0900, and at 0905 a school bus shows up that is obviously a school event, that I must leave, disarm and come back, or not come back.
Sorry you cannot understand that, lets agree that i cannot convince you.