SCOTUS approves warrantless home entry

[VMI77]

Just have to be careful and hold those who abuse this, and other exceptions, accountable.

Yeah, as long as your family gets a big settlement out of their wrongful death suit should you end up bleeding out on your floor, it's all good. And if it makes home invasions safer for the bad guys, oh well, can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

[b322da]

... I exaggerated, and the authority fetishism on display in this thread had me angry. I know intellectually that there are good officers out there, but from the number of police misconduct stories that get ignored or dismissed by the department it sure feels like they're a rare breed some days.

When I read this I thought, "this guy must be in Houston," and a quick look at his profile substantiated my guess. If you read the Houston news daily it is hard to think otherwise. And these are the guys SCOTUS says we rely on to make exigent circumstances decisions.

BTW, hirundo82, I must compliment you on your frank admission of exaggeration, but I fully understand what made you angry. Your anger was justified and I share it.

Elmo

[boba]

And if it makes home invasions safer for the bad guys, oh well, can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

I pray those judges get a "warrantless home entry" from a violent gang. That would be some divine justice.

[VMI77]

You can talk about checks and balances all you want to, but if you are in a pine box pushing up daisies due to a mistake or over-zealousness, and your family has no REAL recourse for justice, well that is simply wrong on any level.

The idea that whatever the government does wrong to you can be "corrected" in some subsequent legal action is a pathetic excuse used to justify the abuse of government power --even if it doesn't lead to you pushing up daisies. Abuses and mistakes will occur, but the way to limit them is to limit the possibility that they may happen in the first place, not to give the government more power and put faith in fantasy remedies that in many cases cannot possibly rectify the abuse. You can't unbreak an egg: as the story goes, even all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't do that.

And what's all this for? When the police break down the wrong door and end up killing an innocent party or shooting their dogs, are they usually after serial killers, rapists, armed robbers? No, they're after people who want to sell or buy a substance the government says you shouldn't inhale or ingest. Apparently if you're a suspected murderer, home invader, or rapist, the police can't just bust in without a warrant because they hear a toilet flush or some other sounds "suggesting" evidence is being destroyed. I'm amazed at how many people are willing to accept frequent abrogation of individual rights so the government can stop other people from getting high. It's ironic to see it here because it's just another version of the "it won't happen to me" and "if you've got nothing to hide" beliefs you hear from people who wonder why anyone but the police need to carry or a gun, or why anyone would object to the police searching their car.

And no, I don't inhale or ingest illegal substances, I'm merely pointing out a wacky set of priorities. I was called to jury duty and we were told by the prosecutor that the defendant was subject to life imprisonment on the charge of possession of four or more grams of cocaine. He wasn't accused of raping, robbing, or killing anyone, just of possessing cocaine --with intent to distribute, based on the amount. You can rob, rape, and murder people and not get life in prison, but you can get life for selling drugs to consenting buyers: that's nuts.

[speedsix]

Just have to be careful and hold those who abuse this, and other exceptions, accountable.

It's not just the 1% of bad cops I worry about--it's also the other 99% who cover for them.

...this is not only untrue, it's an insult to every good honest cop in America...several of which are members here...and I suspect you don't have NEARLY enough life experience to honestly hold this opinion...

We're constantly told that there are a very few bad cops out there who give the rest a bad name. I'm saying that any cop who has ever looked the other way while another officer violated someone's rights or broke the law to make an arrest is part of the problem.

...that is NOT what you said...you said that one percent of cops were bad...and the other ninety-nine percent cover for them...

[hirundo82]

you said that one percent of cops were bad...and the other ninety-nine percent cover for them...

Like I said, I overstated when I implied that all the rest are covering for them, and for that I apologize.

However, if others aren't covering for them why haven't the bad cops been outed and fired at the least?

[speedsix]

...why do people from all walks of life get away with not doing their jobs well for a long time before being fired? Police are people, regardless of what you've been told...some good, some bad, and the good ones shine and the bad ones stink....but they don't belong in the same bucket...that's like saying all college students are dope-smoking beer-drinking bums who are sponging off Mama and Daddy...TOTALLY unfair and TOTALLY untrue...that was my point...your comments in this post seem to indicate a less than favorable opinion of the law enforcement community...I wonder if it's because of hearsay and "stories" or real-life experience...I respect the LEOS I know in Texas more than anywhere else I know...they're more professional and a cut above...where I worked years ago...not so much...you might find out as you go on down the road that there're a lot of good 'uns...

[boba]

that's like saying all college students are dope-smoking beer-drinking bums who are sponging off Mama and Daddy

I wasn't a math major but isn't that more like saying 1% of college students are dope-smoking beer-drinking bums who are sponging off Mama and Daddy?















That could be low.

[speedsix]

that's like saying all college students are dope-smoking beer-drinking bums who are sponging off Mama and Daddy

I wasn't a math major but isn't that more like saying 1% of college students are dope-smoking beer-drinking bums who are sponging off Mama and Daddy?
...the post you pulled that out if hasn't got anything to do with math...I was making an example that showed the unfairness of his statement earlier...and the inaccuracy of it...read it in context...leave it in context...clears up your confusion nicely...















That could be low.

[hirundo82]

...why do people from all walks of life get away with not doing their jobs well for a long time before being fired? Police are people, regardless of what you've been told...some good, some bad, and the good ones shine and the bad ones stink....but they don't belong in the same bucket...

We don't give everyone governmental authority and the power of life and death over others. You want the power, you should be held to a higher authority.

...your comments in this post seem to indicate a less than favorable opinion of the law enforcement community...I wonder if it's because of hearsay and "stories" or real-life experience...

Some of both. While I haven't had any major run-ins with the law, my experience is that law enforcement tends to demands respect from everyone while giving none in return. I believe you should only get the respect you deserve, and while I'll be polite if I don't know you I won't bow and kiss your boots simply because you wear a badge. I'll speak up and assert my rights if I feel they're being violated, and I've found that doesn't tend to go over too well.

you might find out as you go on down the road that there're a lot of good 'uns...

I know there are. I spent several years in EMS and have friends at all levels of law enforcement. I just wonder why the good ones aren't more proactive at getting the bad ones off the force.

[jbirds1210]

Just have to be careful and hold those who abuse this, and other exceptions, accountable.

It's not just the 1% of bad cops I worry about--it's also the other 99% who cover for them.

A disgusting statement.

Jason

[b322da]

As one might expect, hirundo82, your respectful offer of an apology has obviously not been accepted in the gentlemanly manner in which it was offered.

Which not only tells us something about those to whom it was offered, but also further reinforces the reason you gave for your justifiable anger which led to the exaggeration.

Elmo

[Winchster]

How much trampling of our constitution before we get mad? How far into a police state where everyone is a suspect do we have to get? I have never personally met a bad apple LEO, but I've met several that were extremely arrogant and believed they were better than us subjects. It has oft been quoted but how many people truly believe that we can give up liberty in exchange for security. I was recently lambasted for my comments about obeying a mostly correct 30.06 sign. I was accused of being timid in my rights. We, me and the other party made nice afterwards. However, I see many of the same posters here seemingly defending the SCOTUS decision to invalidate a fundamental right because it makes a LEO's job a little easier to catch a bad guy. To me the argument has now been reversed. I refuse to be timid about the bill of rights. They mean what they say and say what they mean. There is very little wiggle room. So for those that spoke up in favor of 30.06 meaning EXACTLY what it says, here is an opportunity to remain consistent in your belief. The 4th says what it says and busting down a door without a warrant because you hear something is clearly unreasonable.

[speedsix]

...why do people from all walks of life get away with not doing their jobs well for a long time before being fired? Police are people, regardless of what you've been told...some good, some bad, and the good ones shine and the bad ones stink....but they don't belong in the same bucket...

We don't give everyone governmental authority and the power of life and death over others. You want the power, you should be held to a higher authority.

**...I felt this way...kind of like a sacred trust...but many do not...to many, it's just a job, and they're not held to a higher standard...partly due to union influence...

...your comments in this post seem to indicate a less than favorable opinion of the law enforcement community...I wonder if it's because of hearsay and "stories" or real-life experience...

Some of both. While I haven't had any major run-ins with the law, my experience is that law enforcement tends to demands respect from everyone while giving none in return. I believe you should only get the respect you deserve, and while I'll be polite if I don't know you I won't bow and kiss your boots simply because you wear a badge. I'll speak up and assert my rights if I feel they're being violated, and I've found that doesn't tend to go over too well.

**...we're kindred spirits there...I believe that an officer should treat the customer with respect until forced by the customer to abandon civility...and I believe that citizens should give officers respect...as long as they behave in a manner that commands it...the badge is a sign of service...even more than authority...and I have loudly and vigorously resisted a bad attitude as often as honoring a good one...when I was a cop, I was treated by citizens and city hall as less than a citizen...we actually forfeited some rights to be officers...never again...so far, my family hasn't had to attend my funeral...but some things are worth dying for...

you might find out as you go on down the road that there're a lot of good 'uns...

I know there are. I spent several years in EMS and have friends at all levels of law enforcement. I just wonder why the good ones aren't more proactive at getting the bad ones off the force.

**...having been in EMS, you have more experience than I thought...and more respect in my eyes for doing a job I couldn't do...you probably know a lot more about the inside than I thought....there are many cops who have turned in fellow officers to Internal Affairs and reported them otherwise...there are many who have arrested other officers...I think the main problem in Law Enforcement is lack of Continuing Education classes to remind them what they knew when they left the Academy...that their main job is to serve...and to update them on changes in the law...we need to re-learn and refresh what we've been trained to do...or we start slipping...I don't know how to set off my comments...or why it set off the last one automatically...just trying to match answer to your statements...compooters!!!

[Heartland Patriot]

I'm really not sure how to take the replies to what I said...first off, I am NOT happy about this decision. However, when I was talking about criminals getting too much support from some folks, I'm talking about those who initiate violence against others, whether physical or against one's property...but the charges get "plea bargained" down, or the person gets an "insanity defense" when its not warranted...I would like to see those that set the priorities for law enforcement have them concentrating on murderers, rapists, thieves, etc...but, if drug dealers are creating a climate that fosters violent crimes (robbery to get money for drugs or a murder committed in the commission of said crimes), then they are not simple businessmen selling a product. I understand that its a complex problem, but I also think that this court decision was NOT the way to go. I guess I just don't have enough legal knowledge to make what I think about it any clearer. My apologies.