Open Carry, and Political Correctness

[chuckybrown]

I've read some recent threads on here regarding the possibility of Open Carry ("OC") passing during this legislative session.

While I'm not condoning the behaviors/antics/strategies that some have taken to lead the charge for OC, I'm equally confused
by the stance of my fellow CHL'ers. And, specifically, the chasm that exists between the two.

Let me share why I have those feelings:

Some on the CHL side seem to be opposed to OC. Concerns are sited such as more 30.06 postings, possibly seeing
tougher restrictions on carry, and the concern of "alarming" the general public with open carry. Now, the OC'ers seem to be equally
fervent regarding OC rights, and don't seem to be concerned about the CHL'ers concerns. (My .02 cents...I'm trying to nicely
generalize here, so don't flame me for not getting my words right, I'm trying to illustrate....)

My question is this: How can anyone, (including myself) be pro 2nd amendment, yet be against OC? It's almost like being pro
"applied CHL". In other words, if it fits a definition that's acceptable based on today's community standards, it's ok,
otherwise, not so much.....

Has political correctness now entwined itself in 2nd amendment discussion? Is CHL is fine, but goodness sakes,
let's not assert our rights to the point that others find in unacceptable? Where's the right to "bear" arms if this is the case?

Folks, I am NOT trying to start a flame war, just trying to think this all through.

My bigger question is: At what point do we stand up and say "the 2nd amendment is the 2nd amendment"? Or, don't we?

I'm trying to find out how to think this through, and am curious how ya'll feel.

Peace.

[Beiruty]

If the new OC for CHLer bacame law. I do not see a lot of OC or OC leading to more 30.06.

Here is why:
1) to open carry you need a CHL mayb will be called HL.
2) Those who will do CC with a CHL will most likely keep CC.
3( if The CHLer wants to OC will not do so and walk straight into Costco or Walmart.
4) Existing CHLer appreciate not seeing more 30.06 due OC, so they would not OC while walking into businesses.

Only new OCer who wants s to OC would get CHL/HL and may walk into businesses OC iin defaiance or disregard to more 30.06

[The Annoyed Man]

ChuckyBrown, while there are certainly some members who are against OC, I think that if you did an actual numbers assessment, you would find that they are in a distinct minority. That said, most of the rest are not so much against OC itself as they are against the tactics of some of the most fervent supporters, which threaten to do damage to gains already made in CC.....damage that some OC supporters either refuse to address, dismiss without discussion, or are willing to accept as the price of obtaining OC.

Bomb throwing and cavalier treatment of your base is no way to grow support.

Anyway, I'm not going to add any more to this thread. I don't have anything of value to contribute that I haven't contributed in 20 previous OC threads.

[chuckybrown]

Thanks TAM. Again, not trying to kick up dust here, just trying to think it through, and formulate my position......

[The Annoyed Man]

Thanks TAM. Again, not trying to kick up dust here, just trying to think it through, and formulate my position......

No problem. And in my previous answer, I inadvertently left out that there are a large number here who are very much in favor of OC. I was earlier referring to those who generally support the idea of it, but don't want to destroy gains already made in CC in the process of passing OC.

For my own part, I would like to see Constitutional Carry as the ultimate goal; but I think that it is a target to be arrived at incrementally to obtain the best results.

[pnctar]

My bigger question is: At what point do we stand up and say "the 2nd amendment is the 2nd amendment"? Or, don't we?

Think we all stand up to this one! OC or CC is still our individual right.

I'd like to see it pass because of the options. I'll still CC but, don't have to be so concerned about clothing, IWB - OWB, long shirt, etc.

[rdcrags]

to open carry you need a CHL maybe will be called HL.

Is that so? Haven't looked at the bill, but some states do not require a license or permit to open carry.

[baldeagle]

Some of us are realists. We believe in the Constitution, but we're not stupid enough to think that it will be followed or even cared about by the majority of people. So we take the little victories that we can get and work hard to get more while working equally hard to educate and change opinions. But the bottom line is that we carry for self defense, and we do not want that taken away by foolish attempts to move to fast on restoring our Constitutional rights. This is America. Like it or not, our representatives will do what the people want, the Constitution notwithstanding. If a small percentage is aware of their rights that does not mean that the majority, who elect our representatives, will agree with us and our exercise of those rights. When they don't agree, if we push too hard or too fast, we could lose what few rights we presently have. I don't want to be defenseless when confronted by an attacker because someone demanded their rights so stridently that the public reacted by demanding more restrictions on my rights.

They started confiscating weapons when you came into town back in the 1800's. It will take a while to get people to understand that those actions were unconstitutional.

[03Lightningrocks]

[flintknapper]

Thanks TAM. Again, not trying to kick up dust here, just trying to think it through, and formulate my position......

No problem. And in my previous answer, I inadvertently left out that there are a large number here who are very much in favor of OC. I was earlier referring to those who generally support the idea of it, but don't want to destroy gains already made in CC in the process of passing OC.

For my own part, I would like to see Constitutional Carry as the ultimate goal; but I think that it is a target to be arrived at incrementally to obtain the best results.

As you know...I am in the same camp as you about this. The only problem I have is: Some folks here hold up the "it will destroy CC" idea as if it were some foregone conclusion!

I do not argue the possibility for an increase in 30.06 signs exists if OC were to pass, but I do disagree that it would be widespread or problematic for long.

I've said many times....proper education and a pre-conditioning of the public would go a long way in terms of avoiding the shock factor that some urban soccer moms are sure to have.

This can be achieved, but not with the bickering and lines drawn it the sand from folks on both sides of the issue. I am sad to see this be such a sensitive subject here.

[srothstein]

I think TAM has it mostly correct, but I would add something that might clarify some of the confusion.

Some of the posters here are against OC for themselves based on what they see as the tactics of how to carry. I think most recognize the 2A means OC should be legal, but their discussion of the tactics in carrying, as well as the tactics of how we get to constitutional carry, may make them seem to be against OC.

And the pro-OC people seem to use poor tactics for getting support when they downplay the concerns of the CHL community.

As for me, I can't wait until we repeal all of Chapter 46, but I think the way to get there is through small steps. Charles has convinced me that there is a good chance of more 30.06 signs if we pass OC right now, and the way the current bill is worded makes me think even more that he is correct.

But it seems to me that you had a good understanding of the basic positions, even if I might have worded it slightly differently.

[TexasGal]

I agree that most CHL would like to see OC legal here. It's just that we fear the outcry from those who are fearful, ignorant or have political convictions against guns. I know this is very frustrating to anyone who has a passionate conviction the constitution should be unquestionably obeyed no matter what the general public wants. We can all agree in principle, but the reality is we can be voted out of our ability to have our guns in public anytime the wind blows that way. I firmly believe the time is coming when OC would be accepted if we can continue to add large numbers of CHL holders while not arousing public attitudes against us. Sooner or later, most people would know someone who was a CHL and understand it a lot better than they do now. It seems to me the public is more ready to see OC in some places rather than others. OC on a child's playground would probably bother a lot of parents. OC inside businesses would probably bother a lot of people. OC while hiking, riding, biking, walking, not so much. I know the logical arguments about that observation, but we are talking about emotional reactions of the public, and they don't have to be logical. The police have a badge visible while OC'ing a weapon in plain clothes just to allay the fears of the public. If OC were passed for CHL holders, what would we do to allay their fears? Honestly...what? Is our desire to carry comfortably in the open so important that we should be callous to the feelings of those who don't know who we are or if we are good guys? Would the much maligned CHL badge then be needed to hang next to the OC'ed weapon? Please don't pounce, I think the idea is ludicrous for CC, but what about OC if it makes them feel better?

[Jumping Frog]

Charles has convinced me that there is a good chance of more 30.06 signs if we pass OC right now, and the way the current bill is worded makes me think even more that he is correct.

I agree and therefore do not support the current bill. And before any OC supporters jump on my case, I regularly open carried when I lived in Ohio.

[kjolly]

Texas used to be all Open Carry before the Civil War. I think we scared the carpetbaggers. The only advantage to open carry is the long hot Texas summers and not have to worried about printing. I don't want to alarm the school teachers, and the little old ladies out shopping for goceries. Respect everyone's rights.

[speedsix]

...you'd be amazed at how many of those little old ladies are packin' iron in those handbags!!!