What to do when it is 2+ assailants with guns flanking you?

[Hoi Polloi]

Alternate rounds between the two until the threat stops.

How would that work for the Cedar Park scenario? Woman is in a car with gunmen on either side and a roadblock in front of her. Will you walk me through it as you'd see it, please?

[MadMonkey]

Duck.






Or this:





In all seriousness, I'd move (rapidly) to a location where I could keep both of them in view, preferably laterally, and keep moving until the fight is over. Instead of a line, at least make a triangle..

BG---YOU---BG


BG......BG
...\.../
.....\/
....YOU

Sorry for the crappy diagram, I guess Paint would have been easier

If it's DEFINITELY a deadly force situation, I'd already be firing at one as I moved away, at minimum a doubletap to keep his head down. Swing around, hopefully the other is still visible... if not, move to cover (which you should be heading for already) and make sure the first threat is dealt with. Search and assess... keep eyes in the back of your head.

[CC Italian]

In a perfect scenario if they didn't already have guns drawn on me I would dump as many rounds at them as possible and move for cover at the same time. A buddy who was over in Iraq said calmer heads prevail. He was accustomed to getting shot at and while he was still scared he knew what to do and not choke up. He said that’s the main thing. Most people would probably choke up there first time in a firefight. He said it happened to him on more then one occasion. I guess that’s something you can only get better with experience. Experience I hope I never have!

I actually asked him about this scenario and he said he might just actually run as fast as he could if he had a path away. Hitting moving targets is not as easy to do at close range with a handgun and even if you get one bg you are more then likely going to get hit if you engage with two. Of course unless they aim like the guy in the closet in Pulp Fiction and you just get lucky.

[CC Italian]

As for the Cedar Park scenario. Obviously it wasn't a real road block but just a few stones to make her stop for a split second. I can't say I would have done anything different if I actually stopped. I would immediately slam on the gas and take off if I saw someone in the bushes. I would not sit around for a second and hesitate like she did. Get out of there as quick as possible and if they get in front of me run them down with my 4000 pound car.

[CC Italian]

The way I look at it is that if they get control of you or your car you have just lost any control of the situation. I defiantly wouldn't draw on a guy who has a 12 gauge pointed at me. Buckshot goes right through car doors as we all know! I figure either way if they shoot you are dead with a shotgun at close range and you have to assume they will kill you or being a women possibly rape you if you get out of the car.

In the end she did the right thing, never let them control your person. Law enforcement almost always tells women to put up a fight if someone is trying to kidnap them. Once someone has grabbed you and committed the crime they figure why leave a potential witness. Armed robbery 20 years-life. Murder 20-death. Either way their life is over if they get caught. That’s why so many store clerks get shot over 50 bucks, one less witness.

[SWAMPRNR]

Deploy trunk monkey ? Just a thought.

[der Teufel]

I'd say "here's my wallet, look here inside -- here's my money. Take it , it's yours now!"

Once you get into a situation where you are at a distinct disadvantage, fighting your way out is a low-percentage bet. If they're trying to kidnap me, or it looks like they're going to shoot me anyway, that's a different story. But as long as it's looking like a robbery and not a rubout, I'd cooperate unless the situation changed so that I some type of advantage.

As we used to say in the Army -- "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!" When that happens it's too late to just Shoot it Out.

[Beiruty]

If some BG pulls a deadly weapon on me, he has no respect to my life and in my eyes he isnt after the $40 that might be in my wallet. Deadly force is what the BG should net.

[Oldgringo]

Let's hear from a woman's viewpoint. How would Hoi Polloi handle this situation with her kid and her Granny?

[MoJo]

One of the worst things that can happen to a military unit is to get flanked. For a single CHL being flanked is almost guaranteed death or injury. If I was in such a situation I would get the heck out of Dodge. Throw the car into reverse do a 180 and drive away very very fast. If I had someone with me that could use the gun I would give it to them and of course call 911.

My unit got flanked in training once never happened again in training or for real. The solution is - - - AWARENESS - - - if it doesn't look or feel right don't.

Most of us don't have the luxury of training exercises to hone our skills. Mental preparation exercises are the only thing we have... Hoi Polloi, good question it made made me think.

[Dragonfighter]

One of the worst things that can happen to a military unit is to get flanked. For a single CHL being flanked is almost guaranteed death or injury. If I was in such a situation I would get the heck out of Dodge. Throw the car into reverse do a 180 and drive away very very fast. If I had someone with me that could use the gun I would give it to them and of course call 911.

My unit got flanked in training once never happened again in training or for real. The solution is - - - AWARENESS - - - if it doesn't look or feel right don't.

Most of us don't have the luxury of training exercises to hone our skills. Mental preparation exercises are the only thing we have... Hoi Polloi, good question it made made me think.

Good points. This I am afraid is a gamble of insight. You have screwed up already and now you have to assess whether your dead already or not. If you believe calmly handing your treasure will disengage you then by all means. If not you can stand there and die or start moving and engaging. A moving target is difficult to hit while a stationary target from a moving platform (you)...not so much.

If I am dead already, there will be battle and all the while I will be crying out to God.

[sawdust]

Or this:

In all seriousness, I'd move (rapidly) to a location where I could keep both of them in view, preferably laterally, and keep moving until the fight is over. Instead of a line, at least make a triangle..

BG---YOU---BG


BG......BG
...\.../
.....\/
....YOU

Sorry for the crappy diagram, I guess Paint would have been easier

If it's DEFINITELY a deadly force situation, I'd already be firing at one as I moved away, at minimum a doubletap to keep his head down. Swing around, hopefully the other is still visible... if not, move to cover (which you should be heading for already) and make sure the first threat is dealt with. Search and assess... keep eyes in the back of your head.

As long as we all recognize that this is a "blackboard" excercise, in finding yourself between the two BG's, a good tactic would be to move in your own flanking arc. This causes their angles of fire and distances to be constantly changing, which in turn tremendously reduces their accuracy and may "improve" your chances of survival. Of course, they could be moving in response to you. But since you have probably spent much more time practicing at the range that the BG's have, you may have improved your odds. However, if this doesn't work, go to Plan B.

In such situations, there are NO absolutes, except for one. In such situations, everything is absolutely situational.

BG>>>>> YOU <<<<<<BG.........................<<<<<<\YOU/
................\YOU/ ............................ \ YOU/
.......... ........\YOU/....................\YOU/
.......................\YOU/...........\YOU/
..............................\YOU/

My apologies also for the non-artistic approach.

[srothstein]

One of the important factors to consider is which BG is actually the greater threat to you. One might have a long gun while the other has a pistol. Take out the long gun first (better potential for first round hit and more damage it it does). One may appear more ready to shoot than the other (take him out first).

Two BGs attacking does require some advance thought and training on tactics. Your response needs to vary based on their tactics. Are they directly across from each other (sets up to hurt each other in a crossfire) or are they in a proper V formation (90 degree angle from you)? How coordinated is the attack? How experienced are the attackers?

Many of the ideas here are good, and extricating yourself from the situation is the best. Normally distance is your friend, and if you were aware enough and lucky enough, you can do this. If they get close, remember that sometimes the best way to break an ambush is to attack one side of it - you may need to charge at one of the BGs enough to distract/disable him and allow you to break contact.

And of course, how many in you party and who they are (both their capabilities and your obligation to them) will also need to be considered and make a difference in your response.

[MadMonkey]

My only issue with the above example is that you'd be moving directly away from the BG on the left instead of having at least SOME form of lateral movement.

But obviously we have no idea what they'd be doing... slim chance they'd be standing still either way.

[djjoshuad]

greeeeeaaaat now I'm going to have dreams of being flanked by armed assailants. of course, in my dreams, I shoot like Neo, so it might not be a bad dream :)