Dealing with Teens fighting a war in the Park!

[Dragonfighter]

I can't quit hanging on your words that "You can get shot. This is Texas". Can you esplain this one to me? I thought it was possible to get shot anywhere... except Kalifornia, where shooting folks is clearly against the law.

I meant if the kid was pointing what look like a black rifle at someone who might be armed, the armed person may draw on the poor kid as his action could be considered a threat.

Especially in low light. I can't take time to find the specifics right now but there have been a couple of juveniles shot by police for pointing such in their direction.

Anyone remember the kids driving around filming their exploits as they shot pedestrians with paintball guns? I thank God it did not happen to me because there would have likely been a bunch of dead kids, and for what? A prank.

[03Lightningrocks]

To quote you from Taco Bell shooting thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=43376

He is lucky those cops were not better shots. I can't believe he didn't get killed by them! The world has definitely gone mad! From the story he looked to be getting ready to wage war on the place. I am afraid I would have blasted him before he could get those weapons in action. Pointing the gun at me and pulling the trigger would just make me think it misfired and I better respond quickly or die with a follow up round. BB gun would not have entered my mind. Just curious, how many of you would have fired at that guy if you were the person at the window and carrying concealed?

From your previous post in this thread I'm having a hard time understanding whether you agree with me and yourself from the other thread, or not.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, and if you'll notice I gave examples of LEOs mistaking all manner of things to be guns with fatal results. You'd think they would be even better trained to handle such situations than CHLers.

All I was saying is that I can definitely see why someone would be more weary of running around with what appears to be a gun in a state where 2% of the regular citizens carry. It's not an argument against CHL, IMHO, it's an argument against stupid behavior.

The two posts have nothing to do with each other. We are talking two kids with airsoft guns that were not threatening anyone or are we talking about a guy who not only displayed multiple guns in a threatening manner to a taco bell employee, he also displayed in a threatening manner to the cops.

I hope you and others here know the difference between a threatening situation and a passive one! Oh yeah... and not just because this is Texas! and...I never said someone could not get shot by displaying a toy gun! I said it is NOT MORE LIKELY BECAUSE FOLKS HAVE A CHL!!!!! My point here was that some folks in this thread, seem to associate a CHL with a higher risk of an accidental shooting. I strongly disagree with you and others on that. I believe a CHL causes most of us to be more cautious about entering confrontation.

[Fangs]

Pointing the gun at me and pulling the trigger would just make me think it misfired and I better respond quickly or die with a follow up round. BB gun would not have entered my mind.

The above quote was your response to the Taco Bell guy's original threatening toy gun actions, before he went and grabbed the real guns. At least that's how I understand it, forgive me if I'm wrong. I would be thinking the exact same thing. Angry guy who appears to have a real weapon and by chance the safety's on or it misfired, or something. I would take that opportunity to stop the perceived threat, just as you stated you would.

Forgive me for going off-topic without clearly mentioning I was jumping tracks. My belief is that someone running around with a realistic toy weapon in a threatening manner in a state that has armed citizens has greater potential for resulting in serious bodily injury. I wasn't talking about the kids playing in the park where it's obviously not a deadly force situation. I was talking about something like the Taco Bell situation, before the real guns came out, but where it could still easily be mistaken for a deadly force scenario.

I don't think Beiruty or I said anything with the intention of insulting Texas, just that robbing or threatening honest citizens with a realistic toy weapon in a state where they are disarmed is less likely to get you filled with holes than in a state that allows them to protect themselves.

I never said someone could not get shot by displaying a toy gun! I said it is NOT MORE LIKELY BECAUSE FOLKS HAVE A CHL!!!!! My point here was that some folks in this thread, seem to associate a CHL with a higher risk of an accidental shooting. I strongly disagree with you and others on that. I believe a CHL causes most of us to be more cautious about entering confrontation.

I'll have to disagree with you on that. I think it is more likely just because you have more armed citizens. Keep in mind I'm talking about someone with evil intent getting shot where his actions and apparent deadly weapon necessitate a deadly force response. Now if you thought I meant that there's a higher chance of kids getting shot for playing airsoft in the park just because we have CHL in Texas, then you misunderstood my intention, quite possibly because I worded my reply poorly. I also agree with you that having a CHL makes us more cautious.

Hope that clarified my position on the subject a bit.

[Beiruty]

It should be clear that if someone is using a toy gun or bb to rob or threat someone the response can be deadly by CHLer. In the case of the kids in the park, no hint or thought of deploying deadly gorce was ever considered and threat of calling the police was just a scare tactic.

[03Lightningrocks]

Well Fangs, by your argument, we should immediately cancel the CHL program. My goodness, we can't have innocent children being killed by irresponsible CHL holders. If we just make a CHL illegal, all the concealed handguns will immediately be gone and no innocent children will be at risk.

Sounds kind of silly, doesn't it? Some folks make posts on this forum, not realizing, they sound like arguments for outlawing CC. I can think of no better reason to outlaw C.C. than to establish a relationship between higher risk of accidental shootings and number of citizens holding a CHL.


PS...Please quit trying to draw a parallel between kids in a park and some doofus pointing a gun in a persons face and at the police in a threatening manner. It is very important you know the difference if your going to carry a handgun and not become the argument for outlawing the CHL.

Quite frankly, I have no idea why your doing this or what point your trying to make. Different situations call for different responses and as a CHL holder, we have a responsibility to recognize this!

[03Lightningrocks]

It should be clear that if someone is using a toy gun or bb to rob or threat someone the response can be deadly by CHLer. In the case of the kids in the park, no hint or thought of deploying deadly gorce was ever considered and threat of calling the police was just a scare tactic.

Duly NOTED!!! Good grief, I hope the smoke did not cause anyone to believe you considered shooting those kids! The point I was trying to make? Innocent citizens are not at a higher risk of accidental shooting simply because we have 2% of our population holding a CHL. Hopefully it would be just the opposite, since we are better trained and more knowledgeable.Some doofus pointing a gun in a persons face may be at higher risk... but children playing war in a park absolutely are not at higher risk. No more than any other place in the country. Unless one subscribes to a belief that stricter gun laws means safer streets. In any case the two discussion don't correlate in any way. Innocent children playing in the park does not deserve comparison to nut job pointing gun in threatening manner.

I am sorry if you thought I was implying anything about you considering such a moronic action. I actually understood why you reacted the way you did. I would have told them to knock it off myself. I probably wouldn't have threatened to call the cops, but that is not to say I think you did anything wrong.

[kalipsocs]

Without dragging this whole thing out more, OP was a bit over reacting. These days, when I think of calling the police I have to assume that they are hauling someone off to jail or cutting a ticket. Airsoft in the park, until it turns dangerous for participants or non participants, seems like clean fun. There is a WHOLE lot worse things a 14 year old could be doing. Plus, the kid came to apologize and received what appeared to be a tongue lashing? Frankly, I would be impressed that a 14 year old had the manners to do such a thing! Kids will be kids and I feel its important to look at it in that context. Telling them politely to stop shooting in your direction or away from your kids....fair enough. Threatening cops who might be bent on taking these kids to juvie or sending them to court for a ticket that kid can't pay? Seems a bit harsh. I know its hard in the moment, but a simple "hey, could you please..." is often a better solution than "i'm calling the cops". Just my feelings on the matter on the original issue. Hope the rest of your day off was more pleasant!

[TxBlonde]

I do not think the OP would have acted like this over a nerf gun they won't even make my cat flinch. Had to get one because water spray bottle won't work with a cat that jump in bath tubs with KIds... Weird cat.... but anyways.... I live in a very small town and about 5 or 6 years ago at the local wal-mart people were getting there windows shot out by Air-Soft guns. All it was was Plastic balls and a CO2 cartridge, Wal-mart hired security and finally caught the person doing it with the gun in hand.... On a added note.... when we first was introducing my children to gun we bought a couple of those guns that shoot the plastic ball but take no CO2 cartridge and my husband and his friend wanted to see how much it would hurt if someone got shot with this.... We 30 minutes later and two grown men that looked like the chicken pox monster attacked them, They were locked in the safe with the other guns and taken to the range to teach the child proper gun safety. YES EYE PROTECTION WAS WORN DURING TESTING.

[Fangs]

*sigh*

03Lightningrocks, you and I are saying the same thing. You're just getting hung up on the fact that it's in the thread about kids playing war in the park, when the conversation has drifted off-topic to someone displaying a realistic toy in a threatening manner. We both agree that CHLers are much less likely to accidentally shoot children in the park. We both agree that CHLers would be justified in shooting a robber wielding a realistic toy gun in a threatening manner.

Not sure why you still think I'm talking about CHLers shooting kids in the park, I've tried to make it clear that's not what I mean. If I were saying that, then I could see how you got to thinking that I was making an anti-CHL argument. I wasn't.

I wasn't talking about the kids playing in the park where it's obviously not a deadly force situation. I was talking about something like the Taco Bell situation, before the real guns came out, but where it could still easily be mistaken for a deadly force scenario.

Now if you thought I meant that there's a higher chance of kids getting shot for playing airsoft in the park just because we have CHL in Texas, then you misunderstood my intention, quite possibly because I worded my reply poorly.

[mmestx]

While I would have handled the situation a little different, I do understand the op's feelings. I have an electric airsoft rifle that looks like an ak-47. It is metal and wood and fires a plastic bb with enough force to go through a soda can full of water at about 30 ft. It is also quite accurate out to about 70 ft. Also of note, those plastic bb's do ricochet quite a bit when they hit a solid object and after about 90 ft the bb's start to veer off course and end up somewhere other than where originally aimed. Now, as to the possibility of getting shot over theese things, it is definately possible. see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31309&p=364294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; posted on this forum earlier. This is one of the reasons that some cities and towns are banning the airsoft and other bb guns within city limits.

here is the link again in case it got lost in my ramblings:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31309&p=364294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Weg]

Thanks God someone invented airsoft guns and paintball, I remember when I was a kid we had BB gun wars. I once got a bb lodged in my chin.. Someone was cheating and pumped their gun over 2 times, and to think I did all this even after hearing the story from my father who was shot in his eye with a bb gun doing the same thing and lost 50% of his eye site? Kids will kids, not sure what the legality is in a public park but I for one have no problem with kids playing war with painball guns and airsoft.

[03Lightningrocks]

Thanks God someone invented airsoft guns and paintball, I remember when I was a kid we had BB gun wars. I once got a bb lodged in my chin.. Someone was cheating and pumped their gun over 2 times, and to think I did all this even after hearing the story from my father who was shot in his eye with a bb gun doing the same thing and lost 50% of his eye site? Kids will kids, not sure what the legality is in a public park but I for one have no problem with kids playing war with painball guns and airsoft.

You too? We considered having a pump an advantage to be waisted not. No rules about how many pumps because while you were pumping, the Daisy guys were pumping you full of led. We got into a BB gun war with the kids down the block and used cardboard as our "shield" as we approached. Of coarse It didn't work so well. My brother took one in the gut and dropped his end of the cardboard leaving us all exposed. By the time we got out of range, we looked like the chicken pox had descended upon us. One of the neighbors called the cops after someone got the idea to fill a bottle full of gas, light it and chunk it in the other sides direction. Air soft!!!! Humpfa! Kids these days are pansies!!!

Thank god Fangs wasn't born yet and watching. He would have blasted us all. J/K Fangs... .



Edit... hey... wait a minute! You didn't live in Pasadena, did you?

[Weg]

Merced California, home of the true BB gun warriors...

[03Lightningrocks]

Merced California, home of the true BB gun warriors...

My GAWD!!! They allowed BB guns in Kalifornia??? Everyone knows BB guns are a "gateway gun" for other more powerful firearms!