Grapevine PD

[John112709]

Sorry if this is in the wrong spot. Moderators please move if needed. I was in involved in an auto accident Sunday (3/20/11) morning. Two Grapevine PD officers showed up. Officer asked for my DL and insurance. I pulled out my TX DL and TX CHL and insurance card. Wrapped the insurance card around my two id's. Handed them to the officer. Officer went to his car for about 3 minutes. Came back and handed me my DL and insurance card. I quickly noticed he did not have my CHL card. I asked the officer where the other id card was. He said i only handed him one id and insurance card. I raised my voice slightly and said No officer, I handed you two forms of id. He told me sorry sir, you handed me just one id. Maybe you dropped it. I know for a fact i handed him both my id's. I went up and down the ramp with my flashlight and did not find anything. Even went through the small cans the tow trucks had swept up off the highway. Nothing. I was curious to know if maybe he had dropped it in his car. Do the police cars get cleaned out and inspected on a regular basis? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[The Annoyed Man]

I live in Grapevine, and I find the local PD to be fairly responsive. I would begin by phoning the police department and explain what happened. They will have a record of the responding officers, and which vehicles were checked out to them for that shift.

It is entirely possible that the officer in question honestly believed that you had only given him one ID and he accidentally dropped the other under his seat or something. It is difficult to imagine that a GPD officer would deliberately confiscate your CHL without telling you.

If you don't get a positive response, then I would write a letter to the chief of the GPD and make a formal complaint.

BIG CAVEAT: For the purpose of both the phone call AND the letter, YOU WERE NOT ARMED AT THE TIME OF THE ENCOUNTER. Otherwise, they might try to hang a charge on you of carrying without your license. Tell them that you handed over both IDs as a courtesy, even though you weren't carrying at the time, because you figured it would come up when they ran your license anyway.

If you do not get satisfaction, then drop the matter and simply report the license to the DPS as lost and ask for a new one. There might be some small cost involved (I'm not knowledgeable enough to say one way or the other), but that would be considerably less than the cost (financial and otherwise) of trying to force the GPD to come up with your lost license.

[John112709]

Thanks for the tip buddy.

[Beiruty]

I live in Grapevine, and I find the local PD to be fairly responsive. I would begin by phoning the police department and explain what happened. They will have a record of the responding officers, and which vehicles were checked out to them for that shift.

It is entirely possible that the officer in question honestly believed that you had only given him one ID and he accidentally dropped the other under his seat or something. It is difficult to imagine that a GPD officer would deliberately confiscate your CHL without telling you.

If you don't get a positive response, then I would write a letter to the chief of the GPD and make a formal complaint.

BIG CAVEAT: For the purpose of both the phone call AND the letter, YOU WERE NOT ARMED AT THE TIME OF THE ENCOUNTER. Otherwise, they might try to hang a charge on you of carrying without your license. Tell them that you handed over both IDs as a courtesy, even though you weren't carrying at the time, because you figured it would come up when they ran your license anyway.

If you do not get satisfaction, then drop the matter and simply report the license to the DPS as lost and ask for a new one. There might be some small cost involved (I'm not knowledgeable enough to say one way or the other), but that would be considerably less than the cost (financial and otherwise) of trying to force the GPD to come up with your lost license.

he was in his car, no need for CHL under MPA. Armed or not at the time of accident should not matter.

[MasterOfNone]

Duplicate license (to replace the lost one) fee is $25.

[WildBill]

Duplicate license (to replace the lost one) fee is $25.

If I were the OP, I would immediately request a duplicate license. I believe that most PDs probably have their cars cleaned out, but a card could easily slip into a crevice where it wouldn't be easily found.

[speedsix]

...we are required to show it to them, but why would an officer need to take the CHL anywhere...just look at it, verify current status, and hand it back...nothing on the computer he needs to check that I know of that he can't get with the DL...to firmly and politely request it back would keep such "accidents" from happening....our poster shouldn't have to pay $25 and go naked because an officer "goofed"...I would have insisted a supervisor come to the scene and "help" him find it...

[gigag04]

It's just kind of a lame situation...I'm sure the officer didn't intentionally loose your CHL - I would order a replacement right now anyway. You MIGHT be able to get GPD to pick up the $25 tab. The only thing that really bothers me is the tone that you say it happened - the officer should have given you the benefit of the doubt and checked his car - which is where it most likely rests.

A complaint won't really accomplish your objective of finding that exact copy of your CHL - but, if you tell the story to someone with a Gold Badge/Stripes they might could point you in the right direction.

[pcgizzmo]

I don't know this for a fact but I've read and gathered from others interactions w/GPD that some may be CHL averse. Not saying one way or another and I'm certainly not saying this officer intentionally took your license but it's just food for thought.

[billv]

The OP mentioned a tow truck operator that swept up the debris. Perhaps it fell from the packet the office had and the tow truck operator picked it up. He might have meant to return it to the OP and forgot or perhaps wanted to keep it. Or it fell on the floor or under the seat of the police car.

[pcgizzmo]

Maybe some details were left out of the OP's story but if the officer took the license an really didn't have the CHL would he not have gotten a hit that the driver had a CHL and come ask him about it? There is no penalty now for not showing but as far as I know we still have to show and the officers can see it when they run a DL check.

So, why didn't the officer upon returning the license ask to see a CHL and if the driver was armed?

[WildBill]

Maybe some details were left out of the OP's story but if the officer took the license an really didn't have the CHL would he not have gotten a hit that the driver had a CHL and come ask him about it? There is no penalty now for not showing but as far as I know we still have to show and the officers can see it when they run a DL check.

So, why didn't the officer upon returning the license ask to see a CHL and if the driver was armed?

Every time that I have presented my CHL with my DL, the officer has always asked if I was armed before going back to his vehicle. Maybe if the insurance paperwork was "wrapped around" the DL and CHL, he didn't see it.

[chasfm11]

I don't know this for a fact but I've read and gathered from others interactions w/GPD that some may be CHL averse. Not saying one way or another and I'm certainly not saying this officer intentionally took your license but it's just food for thought.

I've wondered about this myself. On my agenda is a stop at GPD to talk about the 30.06 signs at Grapevine Mills. I've lived around Grapevine for 22 years but have only had one occasion to deal with them (parking ticket). Our daughter is a police dispatcher for a neighboring town and even she hasn't had much to say about the tone at GPD in general and, of course, she would have no perspective on their CHL bias or lack of it.

I suspect that this was just an innocent matter. I've always been careful to separate things that I give to people just for this reason. Handing someone a stack of items is different than handing them 3 items separately. I think of it as giving someone change after a purchase. The cashier normally "sounds off" with each item transferred to demonstrate that they got to the correct answer.

[Keith B]

I don't know this for a fact but I've read and gathered from others interactions w/GPD that some may be CHL averse. Not saying one way or another and I'm certainly not saying this officer intentionally took your license but it's just food for thought.

I've wondered about this myself. On my agenda is a stop at GPD to talk about the 30.06 signs at Grapevine Mills. I've lived around Grapevine for 22 years but have only had one occasion to deal with them (parking ticket). Our daughter is a police dispatcher for a neighboring town and even she hasn't had much to say about the tone at GPD in general and, of course, she would have no perspective on their CHL bias or lack of it.

I suspect that this was just an innocent matter. I've always been careful to separate things that I give to people just for this reason. Handing someone a stack of items is different than handing them 3 items separately. I think of it as giving someone change after a purchase. The cashier normally "sounds off" with each item transferred to demonstrate that they got to the correct answer.

The stance of Grapevine PD is that depending on the officer, if caught carrying at Grapevine Mills they will either ask you to leave or arrest you. This is direct from the Grapevine PD to me. I filed an Open Records request for information concerning a department policy to that affect and they stated there was none. In communication with the Chief, I tried to get them to answer the question if they had a non-written policy for arresting a CHL holder at Grapevine Mills and that they felt the signs were valid, and that if a CHL holder was arrested for carrying wouldn't it be 42 U.S.C. 1983 Rights Violation. He refused to make a commitment and said the response to my Open Records Request that there was not a written policy was my answer.

So, bottom line, it will be up to the officer that discovers you carrying there, and if they arrest you vs. just telling you to leave, then you would have to fight it.

As to the OP, I would sure follow up with them and nicely ask about the possibility of the officer dropping it in the car and it is between the seat and the console or under the seat on the floorboard.

[OldCurlyWolf]

Unverified other than a newspaper story about 12-13 years ago, was that GVM mall was claiming that you could not even drive into the parking lot while carrying(The lot was NEVER posted) and GVPD said they would enforce that by making you leave or arresting for trespass. I do not know if that was ever actually enforced. As soon as I knew the mall was posted, Improperly but posted, I never went there again.

As to presenting your CHL. I always present everything in a manner so that there is NO doubt that a DL, CHL and Insurance are ALL being presented at one time. The last time I needed all 3 was 5 years ago in Grand Prairie. I presented DL and CHL last week to an officer taking a burglary report at my home. He didn't even ask if i was carrying. I found out the patrol officers in my district are informed of my LEO background from a comment the SGT. made.