CHL Licensing Section of DPS Destroying the CHL

[Oldgringo]

Renewals do not require new prints if you have an electronic set on file, so theoretically, one time is good for a lifetime.

...and if your record set of prints are not elctronic, what then?

[Keith B]

Renewals do not require new prints if you have an electronic set on file, so theoretically, one time is good for a lifetime.

...and if your record set of prints are not elctronic, what then?

Previously submitted and accepted inked/rolled prints will still be valid for renewals from what I understand; they don't have to be electronic.

[Oldgringo]

Renewals do not require new prints if you have an electronic set on file, so theoretically, one time is good for a lifetime.

...and if your record set of prints are not elctronic, what then?

Previously submitted and accepted inked/rolled prints will still be valid for renewals from what I understand; they don't have to be electronic.

Thanks. That makes sense which means it's probably not applicable.

Someone above mentioned that an hour's drive to the nearest L-1 site shouldn't be a big deal. An hours drive at 60mph means a 120 mile roundtrip. At 20 mph that requires 6 gallons of fuel at $3.50 per gallon adds $21 to the cost of an already expensive piece of plastic. That $21, in this example, is not chump change to some and to others, it is no big deal.

[Crossfire]

Renewals do not require new prints if you have an electronic set on file, so theoretically, one time is good for a lifetime.

...and if your record set of prints are not elctronic, what then?

Previously submitted and accepted inked/rolled prints will still be valid for renewals from what I understand; they don't have to be electronic.

Thanks. That makes sense which means it's probably not applicable.

Someone above mentioned that an hour's drive to the nearest L-1 site shouldn't be a big deal. An hours drive at 60mph means a 120 mile roundtrip. At 20 mph that requires 6 gallons of fuel at $3.50 per gallon adds $21 to the cost of an already expensive piece of plastic. That $21, in this example, is not chump change to some and to others, it is no big deal.

I completely agree!

[AlexKilpatrick]

I've worked in biometrics (fingerprints, face, and iris) for the past seven years, and crossed paths with L-1 several times during my career. I've written programs that convert paper fingerprint cards to electronic records, and deployed the software to Iraq, Afghanistan, and several other countries, where it was used to digitize old fingerprint cards -- more variety than you can imagine. In one country, the fingerprint cards varied every couple of months because someone would just "freehand" a new template whenever they ran out.

If you talk to forensic fingerprint examiners who deal with latent (crime scene) prints, they actually *prefer* ink to electronic. Ink is much higher resolution than electronic prints, which are only 500 dpi. With ink you can often make out individual sweat pores, which can be critical in the event of a latent match. However, ink takes a little more skill because you can't easily "do over" like you can with electronic systems. However, there is nothing magic about electronic systems; I have seen plenty of electronic fingerprint submissions that were essentially unusable because of poor operators.

When you are talking about a 10-print match, which the state/FBI uses, either electronic or paper will give you a very easy match, assuming the enrollment is not absolute garbage. I can understand the state/FBI only wanting electronic *submissions* because that makes their life a lot easier and lowers their labor. However, I don't really understand the requirement for electronic *collection*. There is absolutely no reason they should not take paper prints that have been converted to electronic records. Converting from paper to electronic is just not a big deal.

I'm actually working in a biometric start-up right now. I considered offering a service to allow CHL instructors to take paper fingerprints, mail them to us, and then have us digitize them and submit to the state. That would really help people in remote areas. However, after a little bit of research I learned that L-1 has a total lock on the process. In my opinion, this is totally ridiculous. The state should set the standard for what they will accept, and let anyone provide anything that meets those requirements.

[Vecco]

I've worked in biometrics (fingerprints, face, and iris) for the past seven years, and crossed paths with L-1 several times during my career. I've written programs that convert paper fingerprint cards to electronic records, and deployed the software to Iraq, Afghanistan, and several other countries, where it was used to digitize old fingerprint cards -- more variety than you can imagine. In one country, the fingerprint cards varied every couple of months because someone would just "freehand" a new template whenever they ran out.

If you talk to forensic fingerprint examiners who deal with latent (crime scene) prints, they actually *prefer* ink to electronic. Ink is much higher resolution than electronic prints, which are only 500 dpi. With ink you can often make out individual sweat pores, which can be critical in the event of a latent match. However, ink takes a little more skill because you can't easily "do over" like you can with electronic systems. However, there is nothing magic about electronic systems; I have seen plenty of electronic fingerprint submissions that were essentially unusable because of poor operators.

When you are talking about a 10-print match, which the state/FBI uses, either electronic or paper will give you a very easy match, assuming the enrollment is not absolute garbage. I can understand the state/FBI only wanting electronic *submissions* because that makes their life a lot easier and lowers their labor. However, I don't really understand the requirement for electronic *collection*. There is absolutely no reason they should not take paper prints that have been converted to electronic records. Converting from paper to electronic is just not a big deal.

I'm actually working in a biometric start-up right now. I considered offering a service to allow CHL instructors to take paper fingerprints, mail them to us, and then have us digitize them and submit to the state. That would really help people in remote areas. However, after a little bit of research I learned that L-1 has a total lock on the process. In my opinion, this is totally ridiculous. The state should set the standard for what they will accept, and let anyone provide anything that meets those requirements.

Great Info,.. thanks for the post

[Jimineer]

There are pro's and con's to living away from a big city. Apparently this is one of them. But you only have to do it once in 4 years or so right? Take in a trip to a Bass Pro Shops, Cabella's or something while you're at it. If this is your big complaint, you ain't doing so bad in my opinion. Suck it up as they say.

[Bullwhip]

Even if we can't pass a bill the DPS administrative rule process could stop requiring l1, since that's how they started requiring them in the first place. Law requires applicants to send in prints, nothing requires DPS to send them to FBI or use them at all, just conduct the BG check.

I don't know where you heard that, but sorry it wrong. Tex. Gov't Code §411.176(b) specifically requires that the fingerprints be sent to the FBI. "The department shall send a fingerprint card to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a national criminal history check of the applicant." DPS had nothing to do with requiring fingerprints or sending them to the FBI.

Chas.

Thanks for setting me straight!

I didn't read the GC, I thought I read that in some earlier posts in the thread. I guess I assumed wrong.

I thought about it some more, and remembered that DPS violates GC 411 all the time... any timethey don't issue a license or deny it w/in 60 days. Doesn't seem to be any punishment for not following that part of the law, wouldn't be any punishment for not sending prints either.

[Mr.ViperBoa]

I am glad that there is an L1 close to my house. About 3 miles to be exact. I have been there so many times, they know me by name. I went to get finger printed when I became a foster parent, for my chl, I just went back 2 days ago for the chl instructor course, and I have to go again because tomorrow I am taking a class to be a process server. I am thinking about opening my own L1 location since I have to go so often. A friend of mine sent me a link to where you can start your own L1 location. They will supply you with the equipment and training. I thought that if I end up getting a store front for some of the other businesses I am getting into besides my everyday work, that I might look into this.

[Greybeard]

Quote: "A friend of mine sent me a link to where you can start your own L1 location. They will supply you with the equipment and training. I thought that if I end up getting a store front for some of the other businesses I am getting into besides my everyday work, that I might look into this. :

I believe another one of Murphy's Laws (or somebuddy similar) is "Everyone has a scheme for getting rich that will not work." Check out the L-1 policies carefully - if they will even talk to you. And don't quit the day job.

[AlexKilpatrick]

Fingerprinting would be a good add-on to one of those places that does packing, shipping, copies, etc. You could just let people walk-in and get their fingerprints done. If your enrollers are good, then you can do a whole enrollment in less than five minutes.

However, remember that L-1, by law, has to charge less than $10. You aren't going to be able to make much off of this kind of work, especially after they take their cut.