Scenario; What would you do?

[kauboy]

Actually PC9.04 specifically says that actual presentation of a weapon is threat of deadly force to create apprehension that you will use deadly force if necessary. Saying that you have one is not considered a threat of force per this section.

[txinvestigator]

Actually PC9.04 specifically says that actual presentation of a weapon is threat of deadly force to create apprehension that you will use deadly force if necessary. Saying that you have one is not considered a threat of force per this section.

a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise,

[txinvestigator]

Ah there we go. Thank you.

Yeah, I would think that saying "you and your 9mm.." would be considered intentional failure to conceal your handgun. It is no longer concealed if the person knows its there.

Although to play devil's advocate then that would mean theoretically you could never tell any of your family members of friends that you carry, because then they would know it is there as well, and that would be failure to conceal.

What a conundrum

We have covered this a zillion times. Just simply letting someone know you are carrying is not an offenese.

Concealed does NOT mean that the other person does not know it is there.

[kauboy]

Actually PC9.04 specifically says that actual presentation of a weapon is threat of deadly force to create apprehension that you will use deadly force if necessary. Saying that you have one is not considered a threat of force per this section.

or otherwise,

Sure enough!

[Tote 9]

We've argued back and fourth that informing someone that you have a concealed handgun might not be intentional failure to conceal.

My point is, it could be interpreted as use of force. (to cause apprehension or fear of the use of deadly force)

Granted, it's a bit loose, but people have been charged and convicted for less.

Didn't mean to open a can of worms, since this is such an argumentive subject, but I still haven't been convinced that a threat without showing is wrong. There have been many times when just a threat has solved many situations. Concealed simply means you can't see it. For all the other person knows, if I threaten him with a gun I may be lieing. It's a chance he will have to take. It's also a chance I will have to take. Where can I get some pepper spray ?

[tallmike]

He said something about, "what do I wanna do about it?"

There it is, what do you do?

.

I'm not sure what I would do. It would depend much on his size and how serious he was. If I thought the situation was going to turn in to something I couldn't handle I might have said something like---"At the moment me and my 9mm just want to drive away peacefully". If that didn't work I don't know. I haven't been faced with that situation since
I''ve gotten my chl.

Dont worry about how big he is or anything like that just drive away.

If you get out of the car and he pulls a knife so you pull a gun and shoot him you may be thinking "good shoot" but the lawyers will always come back to "why did you get out of the car" and your legal situation would be up in the air at that point.

Dont let your ego get in the way, it can only cause you problems. Let someone call you names and just keep walking, it isnt worth it. Dont worry about what he says about your mother he probably doesnt know her anyway. They are just words and if you take action on his words you run a good risk of being charged if things go poorly.

If you want to fight over words or to defend your pride then dont carry a gun because you open up a whole new world of liability.

If I seem to have overreacted to your post Im sorry but thats the way it came across to me. "Macho" gun fights are what the antis fear most from an armed society, lets not bring their fears to reality.

[kauboy]

If you want to fight over words or to defend your pride then don't carry a gun...

This is the number one thing that my CHL instructor forced us to ask ourselves. He said that pride is the worst thing you can have when carrying a gun. You have a huge responsibility given to you by the state that says you are allowed to carry a gun almost everywhere. You must know how to behave while carrying it. You must attempt to de-escalate ANY confrontation that you ever encounter. In my opinion, the perfect de-escalation technique would be the one that our instructor taught us. He said that when somebody is in this type of mindset where they are hell bent on a fight, your best course of action is to throw them for a loop and let their brain try to work through it. This forces them to divert their attention away from anger and into real thought, which can normally dissolve the situation quickly.

I would have simply said that he looks cute and would have asked for his number. Then watch his face contort as he tries to figure out what just happened as I'm driving off in the opposite direction with the "I love you"/"Hook 'em horns" hand signal waving out my window. Can you imagine how the rest of his day would go? All day long he would be questioning his manhood and asking his buddies if he comes off a little gay. What a trip.

[gigag04]

I'm driving off in the opposite direction with the"Hook 'em horns" hand signal waving out my window

I would immediately open fire on any vehicle matching this description.




It's a joke.

Gig 'em ags.

[stevie_d_64]

I'm driving off in the opposite direction with the"Hook 'em horns" hand signal waving out my window

I would immediately open fire on any vehicle matching this description.




It's a joke.

Gig 'em ags.

Beat me to it...

[kauboy]

AHA! Have at thee!

[HankB]

When I was younger - much younger - I met challenges like this a couple of times by administering an attitude adjustment. Which on reflection was . . .

STUPID!

I'm lucky I didn't get hurt, or in serious legal trouble.

Now, on those very rare occasions when a road rager directs his ire at me, I smile, shrug, wave, and make the horse's backside think I'm apologizing for whatever he thinks I did. This is Texas, where people carry GUNS . . . which makes picking a fight with a stranger the mark of an IDIOT. I don't care what IDIOTS think of me, my honor, my driving, or my manhood.

If the IDIOT road rager goes away thinking I'm a wimp, fine. NOT having to use deadly force to protect myself or my passengers is a GOOD outcome . . . and if I somehow DO need to use deadly force someday, I'm going to be darned sure I did nothing to escalate things - ALL the escalation is going to come from the IDIOT.

As already stated . . . simply driving off was an excellent response, no matter how much the IDIOT deserved a thrashing.

[seamusTX]

Now, on those very rare occasions when a road rager directs his ire at me, I smile, shrug, wave, and make the horse's backside think I'm apologizing for whatever he thinks I did. This is Texas, where people carry GUNS . . .

I started taking road rage seriously about 20 years ago when there was an epidemic of shooting in the Chicago area. It is completely illegal for an ordinary citizen to have a firearm within reach anywhere but your home or on a range or while hunting in Illinois.

- Jim

[kw5kw]

Now, on those very rare occasions when a road rager directs his ire at me, I smile, shrug, wave, and make the horse's backside think I'm apologizing for whatever he thinks I did. This is Texas, where people carry GUNS . . .

I started taking road rage seriously about 20 years ago when there was an epidemic of shooting in the Chicago area. It is completely illegal for an ordinary citizen to have a firearm within reach anywhere but your home or on a range or while hunting in Illinois.

- Jim

might be illegal, but criminals don't care.

Russ

[seamusTX]

My point is that Texas is not the only place where nut jobs carry weapons. They do it in Chicago, New York, Washington, and Los Angeles, against the law in nearly all cases.

BTW, one of the dirty little secrets in Illinois is that politically connected people can be part-time deputies. They have to meet the minimum qualifications for being a deputy, and maybe have to work security at a public event once a year; but they can carry a concealed weapon all the time.

This business comes to light when one of these pillars of the community gets drunk and shoots up a bar or something of that sort.

- Jim

[Venus Pax]

In Proverbs it says that pride comes before a fall, and a haughty spirit before destruction. Just b/c we have a gun & know how to use it doesn't mean we should in every situation.
TXinvestigator had a properly functioning vehicle; therefore, he had means of retreat.
TI, you did the right thing, especally considering your daughter was in the car. (I would recommend the same action, however, if you were alone.)

Had he followed you, got access to you (more difficult if you remain in your vehicle), pulled a gun/knife/other weapon, or began assaulting you, I believe you would have been within your rights, both legally and ethically, to use your gun.

If you can retreat, do it. The gas is still cheaper than your attorney's fees.