Dillon dies vs. Hornady dies

[mblud]

I am the soon to be new owner of a Dillon RL 550B (got it on Ebay last night). While reading the Dillon manual and website, I noticed that they crimp the cases differently. The Dillon crimp with a separate die, while the Hornady crimp with the seating die. Dillon says they crimp separately because they get a more uniform crimp and you don't have opposite forces acting on the cartridge (down on the bullet and in on the crimp). They also say that their dies are more funnel shaped which tends to feed better in the Dillon.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Also, I don't crimp 45acp at all. I was told or read that because the case shoulder seats on the chamber wall crimping will cause jams. Should the 45acp be getting some amount of crimp?

Also, what about .223/5.56 how much crimp should these cases get?

Thanks for any help!

Monty

[MoJo]

I use either Lee or RCBS dies so I can't speak to Dillon/Hornady. I crimp my .223 ammo with a Lee factory crimp die (separate die) all my pistol ammo (.38/357, 9mm, .40 and .45) get run through a Lee carbide factory crimp die. I put a light taper crimp on my semi auto ammo and a medium roll crimp on my .223 ammo and my revolver ammo. Other rifle rounds may or may not get a crimp depending on intended use.

[jason237m]

I buy the dillon sizing, powder, and seating dies for the wide mouths which speads loading. For crimping it's Lee Factory Crimp die all the way.

These days I just order the individual Dillon dies I want and then order the Lee die to complete a set.

[mblud]

Thanks guys. What is better about the Lee crimp die?

[MoJo]

The Lee Pistol factory crimp die has a carbide sizing ring that "post sizes" the loaded round to max allowed size. This will size down any over belling of the case mouth that isn't removed by the seating/crimp die. It also puts a very snug taper crimp on the loaded round. The Lee rifle factory crimp die will apply enough pressure to crimp a non cannelured bullet without deforming the bullet or the case.

edit: The Lee pistol factory crimp die will remove the bulge from brass fired in a unsupported chamber with the "Bulge Buster" attachment a great addition to any pistol reloader's equipment.

[dcphoto]

I feel I should add that the term "taper crimp" is a bit of a misnomer. You aren't actually crimping anything, you are removing the bell that you added to help seat the bullet. On straight walled cartridges (45 Automatic) and tapered cartridges (9mm Luger) the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth; if you apply a crimp and press the cartridge mouth into the bullet the cartridge won't headspace properly. Another danger with jacketed bullets is the possibility of piercing the jacket and causing it to separate from the core in the barrel. A subsequent shot will hit the separated jacket and could cause a ka-boom in the same manner a squib will.

[Gyrogearhead]

...if you apply a crimp and press the cartridge mouth into the bullet the cartridge won't headspace properly.

When you said "crimp" I believe you intended to say "roll crimp". Roll crimp is definately something you don't want on a 45ACP or 9mm cartridge.

In the "for what it's worth" dept.: Too little crimp and the cartridge will sieze up in the chamber preventing the slide of your pistol from returning to battery. A Failure To Fire (FTF) will result. It's got to be "just right" to function properly.

Gerry

[dcphoto]

...if you apply a crimp and press the cartridge mouth into the bullet the cartridge won't headspace properly.

When you said "crimp" I believe you intended to say "roll crimp". Roll crimp is definately something you don't want on a 45ACP or 9mm cartridge.

I did not intend to say "roll crimp." It is possible to press a case into the bullet with some "taper crimp" dies. On cases that headspace on the cartridge mouth this is a problem, just as not removing the bell is a problem.

[Gyrogearhead]

Ok, I see what you mean now. My mistake. Sometimes I can type faster than I can think.

[Whiskey Thief]

.....Another danger with jacketed bullets is the possibility of piercing the jacket and causing it to separate from the core in the barrel. A subsequent shot will hit the separated jacket and could cause a ka-boom in the same manner a squib will.

Wow, I've NEVER heard of it happening the way you describe it. One would think that since the powder/primer/gas is behind the "separated" jacket, it would get blown out the bbl along WITH the remnants of the bullet.
Got any pix of the aforementioned ka-boom??

[dcphoto]

I don't have any pics, however it would look the same as any other KB from a bore obstruction.

Many full metal jacket bullets are not actually "full" metal jackets. The base of the bullet is not covered by copper. Since it isn't covered the jacket can easily separate since most of the gas pressure is pressing on the lead core of the bullet. This is due to the manufacturing process of the bullets. Copper jackets are formed with the base open to allow a lead core to be pressed in place, then the core is crimped into place by rolling the base of the copper jacket back onto the core.

You can clearly see how the base of a FMJ is constructed in the following picture. Although the bullets depicted are rifle bullets, pistol bullets are constructed the same.