Whole Foods Gun Policy

[Katygunnut]

I'm not sure whether the OP's girlfriend was suggesting that they shop elsewhere, or if she was suggesting that the OP should go unarmed AND support a business that she believes does not support constitutional rights for US citizens.

If she was suggesting they leave the store, then I can respect her decision, and if I was the OP I would gladly have agreed (but then again, I personally think Whole Foods is over priced). If she was suggesting that the OP should give up his 2A rights, then I think the OP should have a deeper discussion with her on their views regarding individual liberties. Again, I know my approach in that case, but then again, I'm not the OP.

Just out of curiousity, does the girlfriend also support a business' wishes to ban any "controversial" speech about politics, sports, or anything else that might be upsetting to others?

[tacticool]

Just out of curiousity, does the girlfriend also support a business' wishes to ban any "controversial" speech about politics, sports, or anything else that might be upsetting to others?

What if a businesses banned people wearing jewelry in a piercing anywhere other than the ears?

Even if it's concealed by clothing, like the OP's gun.

[teds787]

Sorry. It's been a while since I checked on this thread.

The last few posts look like kind of counter-thoughts to the "demonizing of women who don't have the exact same thoughts as you". As the OP, it seemed to me that my girlfriend was not suggesting that we not shop at Whole Foods because of the sign. It felt more like she wanted me to see the situation the same as she did and we should continue to shop at Whole Foods and I should leave my gun in the car, or better yet, at home. This, to me, felt like someone else trying to push their beliefs on me. I love the woman, I really do. But I do not concede to her beliefs or her every wish and whim. Nor do I dump her when she doesn't concede to mine. There were a few of you who said I should dump her and get myself a "good woman". I would say a good woman is one who knows and sticks to her beliefs regardless of what her man believes, says, or does. If she feels so strongly about me not carrying in Whole Foods that she wants to dump ME over it, then so be it.

All that said... I'd like to present a different counter-thought to the "demonizing of women who don't have the exact same thoughts as you". I'm pretty sure that every human being thinks that every other human being should believe the way they do. It is not gender specific. Statements like "if they post their business they will not get any of my money" and "She would not be my girlfriend for very long" are boycott statements meant to enlighten or encourage someone else in the direction of true wisdom... "MY wisdom".

You can hold on to your own ideals or you can take up someone else's. There's a cost on either side of that coin. Each of us has to choose which price we are willing to pay.

Teds787

[The Annoyed Man]

Sorry. It's been a while since I checked on this thread.

The last few posts look like kind of counter-thoughts to the "demonizing of women who don't have the exact same thoughts as you". As the OP, it seemed to me that my girlfriend was not suggesting that we not shop at Whole Foods because of the sign. It felt more like she wanted me to see the situation the same as she did and we should continue to shop at Whole Foods and I should leave my gun in the car, or better yet, at home. This, to me, felt like someone else trying to push their beliefs on me. I love the woman, I really do. But I do not concede to her beliefs or her every wish and whim. Nor do I dump her when she doesn't concede to mine. There were a few of you who said I should dump her and get myself a "good woman". I would say a good woman is one who knows and sticks to her beliefs regardless of what her man believes, says, or does. If she feels so strongly about me not carrying in Whole Foods that she wants to dump ME over it, then so be it.

All that said... I'd like to present a different counter-thought to the "demonizing of women who don't have the exact same thoughts as you". I'm pretty sure that every human being thinks that every other human being should believe the way they do. It is not gender specific. Statements like "if they post their business they will not get any of my money" and "She would not be my girlfriend for very long" are boycott statements meant to enlighten or encourage someone else in the direction of true wisdom... "MY wisdom".

You can hold on to your own ideals or you can take up someone else's. There's a cost on either side of that coin. Each of us has to choose which price we are willing to pay.

Teds787

Teds787, you have a girlfriend. For how long now? I have a wife of over 22 years, whom I dated for over a year before we married. The Annoyed Woman and I are still quite happy together, and we still hold hands in public. I can tell you for a certain fact that it is critical to a healthy long term relationship that both parties to it see eye to eye on the most important issues in life. Now, you could both belong to different political parties and be fine. Or, one of you could be a couch potato and the other an athlete and you'd still be fine. Or you like football and she likes soccer, and you'll still be find. But the right to preserve one's own life, and the right to the means by which to preserve it are kind of core issues that I don't see contributing to a long term relationship unless both parties believe the same thing about it.

Here is why I think that. You partner (and this goes for both men and women) may certainly hold his/her own life cheaply enough that they don't want to ever carry a gun. That is certainly that partner's right. We may think that is foolishness, but at least they are being foolish about their own life. But if that same partner holds your life cheaply enough that they don't want you to carry a gun because some nameless, faceless corporation has a non-compliant sign on their doors, then how much does that partner love you, cherish you, and hold you in high esteem - particularly the "till death do you part" part? The Bible (and you don't have to be a religious person for this to make sense) says that we should not be unequally yoked in our marriages. Read that as "relationships" if you like. That means that things work best when we pull together as a team, holding the same values, and believing in the same basic truths.

Now, I'm not trying to beat up on her. I'm sure she's a very pleasant young woman. But, her words and her actions say that she would rather see you shot dead in the market parking lot than to see you refuse to cooperate with a non-compliant sign. Now, I realize that I am over-stating the proposition a bit, but do you get my drift?

On page one of this thread, I responded to you thusly:

I agree that the US is a pretty safe place, but then I say, "Complacency is a very bad idea." and, "I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it." So, she makes fun of me and I carry.

Ted S
[teds787]

She makes fun of you? Sounds like a keeper. That last item doesn't bode well for your relationship, nor does her lecturing you about what you should or shouldn't do when you haven't asked her opinion. Liberals presume much.

Just my 2¢.

What I can tell you is that my wife of 22+ years, who is by no means a submissive woman (she carries a Glock 19), would never disrespect me and mock me - particularly in public - if she disagreed with me. She would wait until we got home, and then we'd have that discussion and deal with whatever it was. Same for me toward her. I respect her far to much to make fun of her that way over what is a fundamentally core issue disagreement.

So when others tell you stuff like "dump her and get a good woman," yes, they are overstepping their bounds a bit, but that said, their initial instincts are spot on. If the two of you are just "friends with benefits," then who cares about the long term prognosis? But if you two are really serious about one another, then showing each other a little respect (which cuts both ways) is going to be absolutely necessary to a healthy long term relationship... ...which hopefully will see you get married and raise family together. If that is the goal, then until she shows that kind of respect instead of mocking you in public, your long term relationship prospects are dim....

....unless you're some kind of masochist.

I sincerely hope I have not offended. That was not my intention. I'm actually a hopeless romantic, and if this girl means the world to you, then I really do hope that things do work out for the two of you.

[teds787]

Very thoughtful reply Annoyed Man. I agree with you 100%.

I never said she teased me in public. The teasing doesn't come often and it's always a private poke in the ribs,... with a smile. We've been together now for 4 years come this New Years Eve. I don't see an end in sight nor do I see the beginning of a marriage (we've both been there and done that). She is definitely more pushy on me with her ideals than I am with mine on her. But ever since I survived my first marriage, my attitude is pretty much "This is who I am. Take it or leave it." So far, the pros out weigh the cons for both of us. That may not always be the case, but I'll love her for as long as it is.

BTW: I think I'm actually winning (by a very small amount). The teasing is subsiding and on at least one occasion she seemed to be thankful that I WAS carrying. :-)

Teds787

[MrsFosforos]

Bad people target good people, in nicer neighborhoods - on purpose. I remember reading 2 different incidents in Dallas area in the past year -- both occuring at different 2 Whole Food Market stores. One was an attempted car-jacking at gunpoint and the other was a woman beaten and robbed of her wedding ring.

[Bullwhip]

Annoyed Man,you and your wife sound alot like me and mine.

When we got married she swore she was a Democrat. I knew better because we had talked about issues insted of parties. I am not a republican or a democrat, I vote on issues, and she lined up with mine. We're 2 pro-gun pro-defense people and we might disagree a little here an there but we both believe people shjould be free to be people.

[Purplehood]

Teds787 and Hoi Polloi,

I am not sure if I read the OP correctly, but here goes:

The only REAL problem that I might have had with the whole "non-incident" with the GF is that she doesn't bring it up vocally and audibly while in the store while you are carrying. My Ex-wife and son accompany me to movies, restaurants and the like almost every weekend and both are rather vocal about their opposition to carrying. But they both understand and respect my request that they NEVER discuss the subject of firearms (especially my carrying) in front of the public.
So based on your post I am not sure if your GF violated that tenant or not. And since she appears to be a keeper, I would just clarify my position and ask that she not inadvertantly "out" you in the future.

Hoi Polloi,

I don't see discussion of this subject as the demonization of women, as this would apply to a male or female friend. If I am interpreting your take on this issue incorrectly, I apologize in advance.

[7075-T7]

People do come around to ideas that they initally oppose.

When I met my wife, she hated guns and thought they were all the evil in the world, this is because her mother hated guns because they're "dangerous" and her father didn't have any in the house because of it. It was a difficult subject to bring up that I had a 12-guage, let alone I kept it loaded and under my bed. On valentines day a couple months of dating her we went to the local shooting range with a .22 revolver and while initally hesitent and frightened, after about 200 rounds downrange she actually enjoyed shooting a little bit. Fast forward 6 and a half years and she just took her CHL class with her stolen (from me ) Sig P239, her mother is planning to take her CHL class after she practices with her pistol more, her father has his CHL licence with a couple of pistols. Now, my wife is happy that I carry and that I can defend her and myself if needed with the ability to use maximum force.

As for the demonizing of women, I don't think that's the case. It's the demonizing of guns that has happened over the years. She is not the problem just like guns aren't the problem. She has obviously has some mis-information about them and prbably doesn't understand them. Now she may not care to understand them, but as TAM pointed out earlier, someone who you're sharing your life with may not agree with what you believe, but I think that they (and you) should at least try to understand why they feel that way and see if they truly dislike it, or if they have bad information. I've tried many things I didn't like since I met my wife, and she has tried many things that she didn't like, in the end we have both been enriched by the experiances, changed both of our outlooks on various subjects, and our relationship is stronger for trying those things together which is the whole point of having a relationship, isn't it?

[Hoi Polloi]

Teds787 and Hoi Polloi,

I am not sure if I read the OP correctly, but here goes:

The only REAL problem that I might have had with the whole "non-incident" with the GF is that she doesn't bring it up vocally and audibly while in the store while you are carrying. My Ex-wife and son accompany me to movies, restaurants and the like almost every weekend and both are rather vocal about their opposition to carrying. But they both understand and respect my request that they NEVER discuss the subject of firearms (especially my carrying) in front of the public.
So based on your post I am not sure if your GF violated that tenant or not. And since she appears to be a keeper, I would just clarify my position and ask that she not inadvertantly "out" you in the future.

Hoi Polloi,

I don't see discussion of this subject as the demonization of women, as this would apply to a male or female friend. If I am interpreting your take on this issue incorrectly, I apologize in advance.

Purplehood,

I think that is a very reasonable request and I have absolutely no disagreement with the criticism that her concern should be expressed privately and not publicly (especially if it publicly outs him as a "man with a gun" as that is a potentially deadly action depending on who overhears) which I believe is a criticism TAM also recently made, especially if one would expect the same from anyone of either gender.

Telling a guy who is dating to prioritize his values and choose someone who shares his most important values is, in my opinion, wise advice. Telling him that self-defense and gun rights must be one of his top values and he must choose a woman who also has those values is, in my opinion, overstepping one's bounds, especially within the context of strangers on the internet discussing an unrelated topic. Telling a man to divorce a woman he already chose and solemnly vowed his entire life to because she privately suggested he follow his own attorney's advice was something I found very offensive. To be clear, that was handled in-thread on another thread where I expressed my opinion, others clarified that their statements were jokes and not at all intended to be meaningful advice or offensive, and we all moved forward (drinks on me!), so I by no means intend to re-address it here. I'm simply providing background for what I then brought to this thread.

In my post, which was pretty far back in the thread, I was not so much commenting on the girlfriend's response, but on the board's response to her. In my opinion, she was making a statement that many here actually agreed with but the board seemed to be really strongly disagreeing with her to the point they were telling the poster to leave her or something like that (too long ago to remember and too busy and not emotionally involved enough to look for quotes). In one case, someone posted here a disagreement and immediately posted in another thread the exact same argument as the girlfriend presented as I understood it (that the sign expresses intent, immaterial of the legalities, and ought to be respected as a moral issue, not a legal one). It seemed that the concern was actually that she expressed her opinion on this to him (publicly or privately not being an issue I saw at the time, though I agree it is a valid issue) and that was enough to focus so strongly on getting rid of her.

This thread has since moved on considerably to discuss the topic, differing priorities in relationships, her actual intent, the legalities, etc. It was the overall tone that the forum as a whole seemed to have at the time that seemed to take offense with women having divergent opinions, and even more so when they expressed them, that really surprised me. I had not seen that here before, nor have I seen it since. Perhaps there was some passing thing, either on others' side and/or my own. I consider it now a closed issue so I am not invested enough to spend time trying to analyze and figure it out. I hope this explains why I posted at the time as I did, though.

Another round on me?

[whodat1]

Everyone would be satisfied if a CHL badge is worn.

THAT is REAL authority and not to be messed with.

Like this one?

[Venus Pax]

Very thoughtful reply Annoyed Man. I agree with you 100%.

I never said she teased me in public. The teasing doesn't come often and it's always a private poke in the ribs,... with a smile. We've been together now for 4 years come this New Years Eve. I don't see an end in sight nor do I see the beginning of a marriage (we've both been there and done that). She is definitely more pushy on me with her ideals than I am with mine on her. But ever since I survived my first marriage, my attitude is pretty much "This is who I am. Take it or leave it." So far, the pros out weigh the cons for both of us. That may not always be the case, but I'll love her for as long as it is.

BTW: I think I'm actually winning (by a very small amount). The teasing is subsiding and on at least one occasion she seemed to be thankful that I WAS carrying. :-)
Teds787

I think this is the important part. It appears that she is laughing with you more than at you. Big difference.

Also, the fact that she was thankful at one point that you were carrying shows that perhaps she is starting to see things from a different perspective.

[HD76]

When my wife and I got married, I was not " in to guns". It was a non issue that I had never considered. Guns were not a part of my childhood, and I had only very brief exposure to them.

After we had been married a few years, and had kids, a relative ended up moving in with my parents for about half a year. He had his service .45, and kept it loaded in a sock drawer. When my wife found out, she was very hesitant to let the kids spend tome and Grandma's and Grandpa's house.

When we were in a tight place, and stayed with her parents for a while, we found out after being there for over a month, that there were some rifles in a "closet" (unfinished attic area) and they were even up on top of a ceiling area that you needed a step ladder to access. She was very upset to learn they were there.

Discussions were had, and she was not against guns per say, but they made her personally nervous, and she was very scared one of the kids would get their hands on one, and shoot themselves/each other.

After hurricane Rita, my dad started getting concerned about home/work defense and "casually" got into keeping a gun at their place. But it was locked up in his shop. It wasn't till about a year that he got more serious about it and took a handgun safety class, and CHL class. I also started going to the range with him.

This led to a lot more conversations in our family, and eventually to her going to the range with us. She understands it more now, and it is not so mysterious or frightening. I have my CHL now, and keep a few guns at home. Unless it is in my control, they stay locked up.

She had years of misinformation and negative stereotyping to overcome. Now she is and has been super conservative, but she was not really exposed as a child either. All she knew was years of TV and news saying that a gun in the house = a dead kid.

These days we may be driving or walking somewhere, and something will make her uncomfortable. She asks if I’m "packin" or reach over and pat me to see if it is there. She even questioned locking up the gun at night in a lock box on the other side of the bed room. "What good does it do in there?" Last year, having it not in my pocket meant it needed to be locked up for her not to be worried. Now a days it is under the mattress when I go to bed.



So this is kinda my story of how we progressed from a family of no guns, to an armed family. She does not carry, but she knows how to use them, and has made sure she can get to them in incidences where I will be away. Once day she may carry ( she's been eyeing revolvers), but until then at least she has been willing to to admit that she was, well wrong is not correct, but that she was misinformed on the subject. For her, familiarity was a big part of it. I think she truly saw them as evil black guns waiting to get her kids. Hopefully your GF can come to see why it is such an important right, and why it should be exercised when possible.

[Purplehood]

Hoi Polloi,

I think I understand now and I agree that some of us posters tend to contradict ourselves from time to time on separate threads. I appreciate your as usual concise explanation.

[gigag04]

Dr. Joker,

I appreciate your support of the 2A.

That said, I'm curious why no guns at home? Any plans for protection against home invaders?