School property/zone question

[Tex_Jonnie]

I am hoping to get my CHL before the New Year. I have to walk children 4 miles round trip to school in the morning and back in the afternoon. I physically have to walk onto school property to drop them and retrieve them. Am I allowed to concealed carry in the school zone? If so, where can I not carry on the school property? Can I carry on the lawns, sidewalks, driveways & parking lots or are any of those off limits? If I cannot carry on the school property, where does school property end? Can I carry on the sidewalk by the public road? Obviously, the school property/zone causes me some confusion, but I'd like to be able to protect the children and myself. Any clarifications, statutes/sections/laws and definitions would be appreciated...

[seamusTX]

With a CHL, you can carry a firearm anywhere on the campus except school buildings or "any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted." [PC 46.03(a)(1)]

Without a CHL, you cannot legally carry a loaded firearm within 1,000 feet of primary or secondary school grounds, except in narrowly defined circumstances. This is a federal law that is rarely enforced.

- Jim

[ScottDLS]

I am hoping to get my CHL before the New Year. I have to walk children 4 miles round trip to school in the morning and back in the afternoon. I physically have to walk onto school property to drop them and retrieve them. Am I allowed to concealed carry in the school zone? If so, where can I not carry on the school property? Can I carry on the lawns, sidewalks, driveways & parking lots or are any of those off limits? If I cannot carry on the school property, where does school property end? Can I carry on the sidewalk by the public road? Obviously, the school property/zone causes me some confusion, but I'd like to be able to protect the children and myself. Any clarifications, statutes/sections/laws and definitions would be appreciated...

With your Texas CHL you can generally carry except on school "premises" OR areas where school sponsored activities are taking place. Cite as follows:

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;
...
(c) In this section:
(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.
...
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:
...
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;
...
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

So the way I read it you are fine unless you walk into a school building or the immediate area where a school activity (like a sports practice) is taking place.

[3dfxMM]

These answers also presume that the school is not a private school with 30.06 signs.

[seamusTX]

You are correct. I overlooked that aspect.

- Jim

[Tex_Jonnie]

Thank you for answering my questions. This helps clarify some things for me. I just want to make sure that I have the means to protect my children when we are walking. It won't be long before my daughter and I will be walking during uncomfortable times of the day considering the time of year.

[dicion]

You are correct. I overlooked that aspect.

- Jim

Not really, remember 30.06 does not apply while you are in your vehicle because it's not illegal under 46.02 to have a handgun in the car, therefore you do not need the CHL exception to 46.02, therefore you are not carrying under CHL, therefore, 30.06, which applies to persons carrying under CHL, is not apppicable.

[seamusTX]

First of all, the lady said she walks 4 miles round-trip to school, so being in a motor vehicle is irrelevant to the specific question.

Second, this idea that you can decide whether you are carrying under the CHL, MPA, or another statute is unproven. I do not suggest anyone depend upon such a theory until it is upheld in appeals court.

- Jim

[dicion]

doh! My bad for not reading all the way back to the first post!

Anyways, I agree, this is all theoretical, but from the mouth (keyboard?) of one of our friendly forum LEO's. I would welcome seeing it as the result of a test case, but once again, who's going to volunteer for that?

[seamusTX]

I have a great deal of respect for Steve Rothstein and I generally agree with him. However, only the opinions of judges will matter on this issue.

- Jim

[ScottDLS]

First of all, the lady said she walks 4 miles round-trip to school, so being in a motor vehicle is irrelevant to the specific question.

Second, this idea that you can decide whether you are carrying under the CHL, MPA, or another statute is unproven. I do not suggest anyone depend upon such a theory until it is upheld in appeals court.

- Jim

So can a police officer with a CHL, decide that he's not carrying under CHL when he's open carrying in uniform? Can you unconceal at the range without falling afoul of 46.035? Can you carry openly in your own home when you have a CHL on you?

If one were really paranoid, you could make sure you didn't have your card on you in any of these situations. Then you COULDN'T be carrying under your CHL because you don't have it on you. However, as you point out, this is irrelevant as the OP is walking....

[seamusTX]

So can a police officer with a CHL, decide that he's not carrying under CHL when he's open carrying in uniform?

You know perfectly well that the rules are different for LEOs.

The legislature does not often reconcile new bills with older statutes. That results in conflicting statutes. There are also many issues that are unclear, such as whether you can legally carry an "illegal" knife or club under PC 46.15(a)(6).

When the CHL law was passed in 1995, the legislature found it necessary to add the (mostly ridiculous, IMHO) restrictions in PC 46.035. When the MPA was passed in 2007, they no longer thought that these restrictions should apply to unlicensed people packing under MPA, but they did not bother to repeal PC 46.035.

That's why we have appeals courts.

- Jim

[XDSConcealer]

I had a quick question regarding carrying or not carrying. Would I be permitted to carry at a flag football practice that isn't on school property or affiliated with any kind of school? The practices (for 1st & 2nd graders) are held at an open field not on school grounds and the team has nothing to do with any school. Is the practice still considered a sporting event? I would assume so but I just wanted the expert opinion.

Thanks!

[Keith B]

I had a quick question regarding carrying or not carrying. Would I be permitted to carry at a flag football practice that isn't on school property or affiliated with any kind of school? The practices (for 1st & 2nd graders) are held at an open field not on school grounds and the team has nothing to do with any school. Is the practice still considered a sporting event? I would assume so but I just wanted the expert opinion.

Thanks!

It's not school related and the carry prohibition is only for professional sporting events. So, unless the 1st & 2nd graders have signed contracts for big $$$, I don't think they are considered professionals.

[XDSConcealer]

I had a quick question regarding carrying or not carrying. Would I be permitted to carry at a flag football practice that isn't on school property or affiliated with any kind of school? The practices (for 1st & 2nd graders) are held at an open field not on school grounds and the team has nothing to do with any school. Is the practice still considered a sporting event? I would assume so but I just wanted the expert opinion.

Thanks!

It's not school related and the carry prohibition is only for professional sporting events. So, unless the 1st & 2nd graders have signed contracts for big $$$, I don't think they are considered professionals.

Well I'd like to brag and say that my son is an all star but he needs to work on his receiving skills.

Thanks for the reply that's good to know for Friday's practice and Sunday's games. The CHL class I took the instructor didn't specify professional sports he said any sporting event. All his literature says the same thing. Just wanted to be sure.

Thanks, again!!