CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[chartreuse]

The reasons keep piling up to never go to a convention in Nevada!

Quite. In my last job I had to go to DefCon a few times and I found that I thoroughly disliked the city.

I've been out of the loop the past week and have just caught up with this thread. Seems to me that, in addition to badleagle's excellent analysis, there are two other rules to take away from this:
1: Don't go to Las Vegas.
2: Don't shop at Costco.

[seamusTX]

Do you really think this kind of incident couldn't happen somewhere else?

It happens in New York City about once a year. It happened early this morning when the police shot a correction officer who was allegedly walking around drunk with a pistol:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/ ... -shooting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[terryg]

The reasons keep piling up to never go to a convention in Nevada!

1: Don't go to Las Vegas.

Yep - unfortunately, I usually end up having to go to at least one, sometimes two, trade shows in Vegas each year.

[chartreuse]

Do you really think this kind of incident couldn't happen somewhere else?

It happens in New York City about once a year. It happened early this morning when the police shot a correction officer who was allegedly walking around drunk with a pistol:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/ ... -shooting/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

Of course it can and does. But LV appears to have form for gleefully covering it up.

Edited to add: My use of the word "gleeful" is deliberate. When the first man that I made a case against was jailed, I celebrated. It took me about a day and a half to figure out that that attitude was not very Christian and, instead, I should rather have felt quiet remorse that the man's actions had, justifiably, led to his being deprived of his liberty. It's very easy to fall into a "them and us" mindset, but I don't think it's particularly helpful.

[Cobra Medic]

After this killing and whitewash, I think anyone who goes to Las Vegas now deserves whatever they get.

[baldeagle]

Of course it can and does. But LV appears to have form for gleefully covering it up.

Edited to add: My use of the word "gleeful" is deliberate. When the first man that I made a case against was jailed, I celebrated. It took me about a day and a half to figure out that that attitude was not very Christian and, instead, I should rather have felt quiet remorse that the man's actions had, justifiably, led to his being deprived of his liberty. It's very easy to fall into a "them and us" mindset, but I don't think it's particularly helpful.

Interesting that you say that, chartreuse. I was foreman on a jury in a DUI case. Once we had agreed on the verdict, I said, "God help us. We have just convicted a fellow citizen of a crime. This will haunt her the rest of her life." I knew it was the right verdict, but I still felt lousy about it.

[JNMAR]

After this killing and whitewash, I think anyone who goes to Las Vegas now deserves whatever they get.

WOW!

[chartreuse]

Of course it can and does. But LV appears to have form for gleefully covering it up.

Edited to add: My use of the word "gleeful" is deliberate. When the first man that I made a case against was jailed, I celebrated. It took me about a day and a half to figure out that that attitude was not very Christian and, instead, I should rather have felt quiet remorse that the man's actions had, justifiably, led to his being deprived of his liberty. It's very easy to fall into a "them and us" mindset, but I don't think it's particularly helpful.

Interesting that you say that, chartreuse. I was foreman on a jury in a DUI case. Once we had agreed on the verdict, I said, "God help us. We have just convicted a fellow citizen of a crime. This will haunt her the rest of her life." I knew it was the right verdict, but I still felt lousy about it.

Thanks for sharing that, baldeagle. It illustrates the point that I'm, rather clumsily, trying to make. Namely, that there's a big difference between soberly doing what is necessary and being gung-ho for it. I know LEOs in many countries who take the former approach. It appears that LVPD has an institutionalized culture of taking the latter.

[philip964]

Well I really thought any new news on the Erik Scott case would have gone to nothing until the law suits are filed, but I was wrong.

Remember how we have recently learned that Erik now has committed a felony since he had a gun in his possession that he has not qualified for (even though the two guns are very similar). Well what if I told you the Public Administrator for the City of Las Vegas accompanied by the Las Vegas police broke into Erik's locked apartment in the evening of the day of the shooting without a warrant.

The family was trying as quickly as possible to get to the apartment but arrived after the PA had left. The purpose of the visit by the PA was to secure the already locked apartment and remove and secure any of those dangerous guns Erik might have had there.

The girlfriend after seeing her boyfriend executed by the police and being confined to a room at the Costco was "not cooperating with the police" in their attempt to enter the apartment. She had a key.

Here is a you tube audio of the PA calling to get permission from the family to break the door down.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I understand if the crime happened at his apartment and it was unsecure after the crime, but I see no reason without a warrant to search and remove things from his apartment after this incident at Costco. Maybe someone who is more familiar with the law might speak up.

Otherwise the stink is getting pretty thick here.

[baldeagle]

Well I really thought any new news on the Erik Scott case would have gone to nothing until the law suits are filed, but I was wrong.

Remember how we have recently learned that Erik now has committed a felony since he had a gun in his possession that he has not qualified for (even though the two guns are very similar). Well what if I told you the Public Administrator for the City of Las Vegas accompanied by the Las Vegas police broke into Erik's locked apartment in the evening of the day of the shooting without a warrant.

The family was trying as quickly as possible to get to the apartment but arrived after the PA had left. The purpose of the visit by the PA was to secure the already locked apartment and remove and secure any of those dangerous guns Erik might have had there.

The girlfriend after seeing her boyfriend executed by the police and being confined to a room at the Costco was "not cooperating with the police" in their attempt to enter the apartment. She had a key.

Here is a you tube audio of the PA calling to get permission from the family to break the door down.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I understand if the crime happened at his apartment and it was unsecure after the crime, but I see no reason without a warrant to search and remove things from his apartment after this incident at Costco. Maybe someone who is more familiar with the law might speak up.

Otherwise the stink is getting pretty thick here.

The story the Scott family seems to be working on is that Erik never removed his holstered weapon and the Ruger 380 was planted on him by the police. Whether they have anything in the way of evidence to prove this, I don't know, but if they can prove it in court, this case will explode on the national scene, I would think. One thing I am now convinced of is that Erik never had time to remove his holster. No matter how many times you run the scenario, less than three seconds is simply not enough time to respond to the officer's command and remove your holster.

[puma guy]

I am disturbed that someone with the title of Public Administrator can execute a warrantless search with no cause that I can determine. I thought ongoing crime and probable cause were the only reason for that type search, but by police not some appointed or salaried administrator. Erik hadn't been charged with any crime immediately after the shooting. I wonder how quickly they were there because it raises a question in my mind as to the weapon found on Erik. I doubt EMT's and Paramedics are familiar enough with weapons to determine what pistol type and brand they found if called upon to testify, especially since their focus was on Erik. Is there any information available as to how quickly his body was removed? He was DRT according to posts and inquest, so why would he be moved by Paramedics anyway? I thought an ME had to visit the scene of a crime involving a fatality before anything can be touched.

[davidtx]

Over the weekend I got an Facebook message from the Erik Scott page requesting that I e-mail the County Commisioners. Here's the message (I believe that copying this is OK since it came from MY Facebook account):

WE NEED TO CHANGE THE INQUEST PROCESS! They meet next Tuesday, October 5th. Please email all of the County Commissioners listed below by Monday. If you do not live in Las Vegas, tell them that you will not vacation or retire in their city simply because you don’t feel safe. You can use the template letter below or write your own. Please email this template to as many people that you know that may have an interest in this situation. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!!

http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/depts/ ... ssion.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ccdistA@co.clark.nv.us
ccdistB@co.clark.nv.us
ccdistC@co.clark.nv.us
ccdistD@co.clark.nv.us
ccdistE@co.clark.nv.us
ccdistF@co.clark.nv.us
ccdistG@co.clark.nv.us
ccmgr@co.clark.nv.us




Dear County Commissioners,

I respectfully request that you change the Clark County Coroner's Inquest process to ensure ALL facts surrounding the death of any victim killed by Las Vegas Metropolitan Police officers are presented fairly at the deceased's hearing. To that end, I request your immediate action to ensure the family's attorney can:

• Cross-examine all witnesses presented by the District Attorney, including the Metro officers involved.

• Challenge evidence presented by the District Attorney.

• Present witnesses on behalf of the victim's family.

• Present additional evidence.

• Require the Coroner, District Attorney and Metro police officials to disclose key evidence to the family's attorney prior to the inquest hearing, including homicide investigators' reports and the coroner's autopsy and toxicology reports.

• Further, the District Attorney must not be involved in the inquest process, because the DA is not an independent party.

• Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department detectives should not be allowed to investigate officer-involved incidents that result in death. Instead, an independent third party, which has no relationship or involvement with any Police Protective Association (PPA), should investigate all officer-involved shootings, accidents, etc.

• All findings of the third-party investigation must be shared with the victim's family, its attorney and representatives of the PPA at a pre-inquest meeting, prior to the formal hearing.

• The PPA should have its attorney at that meeting to assist in reviewing evidence and facts.

• In addition to the jury, members of an independent citizen's review board should be present at all inquest-related hearings, empowered to make inputs and evaluations. Its primary objective would be to ensure better training and avoid the use of excessive force by Metro officers.

• Jury instructions must be written and presented to jury members prior to the initiation of the formal inquest hearing.

• The inquest hearing should always be televised and video-streamed via Internet, enabling interested parties in the community to monitor all hearing proceedings.

Not implementing these changes virtually guarantees that a victim's hearing will be extremely one-sided, only carefully selected "facts" and data will be presented, and the DA's and Metro's focus will be on assassinating a victim's character, not on answering questions surrounding how and why the person was killed.

As it stands today, the ordinance governing the conduct of any Clark County Coroner's Inquest proceeding violates any reasonable interpretation of constitutional "due process." Thank you for ensuring it is changed immediately.

Regards,
_______________

I added the following paragraph:

I live in Texas and have visited Las Vegas on many occasions. After reviewing the recent events and the inquest process, I no longer feel safe in Las Vegas and do not plan to visit again. I routinely share my opinion with personal and internet acquaintances.

I received a response from Commissioner Giunchigliani's assistant thanking me for the e-mail and promising to show it to the Commissioner or tomorrow's meeting.

[Ameer]

After this killing and whitewash, I think anyone who goes to Las Vegas now deserves whatever they get.

WOW!

What happens in Vegas can kill you.

[blue]

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COPYS TO:

- Visitors Bureaus
- Chambers of Commerce
- Casinos
- Hotel chains
etc., etc.


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[davidtx]

I just received this response to my email:

Thank you for your recent email regarding Clark County Coroner’s Inquest process.  During the September 5, 2010 Clark County Board of Commissioners’ meeting a nine-member committee was established to examine the current inquest process for police officer involved deaths.
 
This nine-member committee will be chaired by Christopher Blakesley, a UNLV Boyd School of Law professor.  Other members will include retired State Supreme Court Chief Justice Bill Maupin, Sheriff Gillespie, and a representative will be appointed from each of the following groups: ACLU, NAACP, Las Vegas Police Protective Association, Clark County Coroner’s office, Clark County District Attorney’s office, and Clark County Public Defender’s office.
 
The committee will have until mid-November to review the current process and provide its recommendations to the Commission. These meetings have not been scheduled but will be open to the public and public comment.  The Commission plans to revisit the issue on December 7, 2010.
 
Thank you again for your input regarding this sensitive issue.  I will notify you of the meeting schedule and encourage your participation and involvement with the process review. 
 
Please feel free to contact my office if you have further questions or concerns.
 
Sincerely,
 
Steve Sisolak
Clark County Commissioner
District A