CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[03Lightningrocks]

So do we know for sure yet if this guy was acting wild in the Costco? Seems the stories abound. Is it confirmed that an employee said he was firing shots? Admittedly, they have me so confused I don't know what to think. This thread just makes me wonder even more. None of these issues justifies the cops executing this man. The only justification for them blasting him would be if he was pointing a gun at them or waving one around wildly. If they shot this guy and he had no gun in his hand or was not drawing a gun, they deserve to be charged criminally, IMHO. Going wild in a store and destroying some merchandise, does not justify the cops executing a guy. If cops are allowed to shoot us simply because someone said we had a gun or said we fired it, is a real dangerous precedent. FOR ALL OF US!!!

I say again... IT seems real suspicious to me that the police have not provided some kind of evidence this guy needed killing.

[PeteCamp]

I say again... IT seems real suspicious to me that the police have not provided some kind of evidence this guy needed killing.

You're exactly right. IF they had that evidence and the case was pretty much airtight that it was a "good shoot", I think we would have seen it already. Every time I think about this incident, it sickens me. Not just for Erik's family and friends, but for all the really fine police officers who do the job with respect and restraint.

One issue that has not been discussed here is the issue of the "secret" policy of Costco. That is, they do not want guns in their stores, but will not post signs to let CHL's know they don't want them. They also do not publish any written notices to their members about the issue. Any notice of a gun leaves the reaction to the individual store manager, or worse yet, to some lower level employee's judgement. I've listened to both side of this argument and I truly believe that Costco may have caused this disaster. I see no problem in clearly stating your store policy. I doubt Erik would have carried his weapon inside had the store been properly posted.

We don't have a Costco around here. I would think you guys would have noticed any 30.06 or gunbuster signs?

[sjfcontrol]

The only sign I've seen at our Costco is the "Unlicensed Possession" sign, since they sell beer and wine.

[HighHandicap]

I can tell you that the "North Austin" Costco has a sign about the unlicensed possession of a firearm being prohibited, but no 30.06 or gunbuster signs.

It sounds to me like that Las Vegas Costco had untrained employees and overzealous management.

[mgood]

So do we know for sure yet if this guy was acting wild in the Costco? Seems the stories abound. Is it confirmed that an employee said he was firing shots?

Some Costco employee(s) said he was acting crazy and destroying merchandise.
His girlfriend said he was not.
I haven't seen any reports of what went on inside from any of the other customers. The absence of any such reports makes me think no one really noticed him inside. That makes it hard for me to believe he was really acting all that crazy. Certainly, if he'd fired his pistol inside the store, someone besides a Costco employee would have noticed that. (And it would be easy enough to prove. The bullet went somewhere. There's a shell casing somewhere.) I give NO credence to the report that he fired a shot(s). That's got to be (in my opinion) someone getting their story mixed up OR someone from Costco exaggerating the tale while on the phone with 911 in an attempt to get police there that much quicker.

[dubya]

I saw a couple news stories today that Erik's family has 7 billboards up (paid with donations) looking for witnesses. It's amazing with how many people were there how hard it is to get witnesses and there are no cell phone videos to it. The police continue to say "eyewitnesses or extremely fallible". There is also an inquest going on. It may be hard to ever get a real handle on this one.

[seamusTX]

It's difficult to take video or be a good witness to something that you don't know in advance is going to happen and is over in seconds. Also, its rare to get three or more witnesses to give consistent accounts of an event, even if they are trying to be honest. Did I mention Twelve Angry Men?

Something like the Rodney King video is a once-a-decade occurrence. Maybe with the proliferation of security cameras, more such video will turn up. However, I already noted why it often does not show the entire situation.

- Jim

[03Lightningrocks]

It's difficult to take video or be a good witness to something that you don't know in advance is going to happen and is over in seconds. Also, its rare to get three or more witnesses to give consistent accounts of an event, even if they are trying to be honest. Did I mention Twelve Angry Men?

Something like the Rodney King video is a once-a-decade occurrence. Maybe with the proliferation of security cameras, more such video will turn up. However, I already noted why it often does not show the entire situation.

- Jim

There is much truth in what you speak... Pale Face...LOL. General Custer was the bad guy from some accounts.

My son and I were debating this very issue on the phone the other night. He from his second year of law school point of view... me from my usual emotional/opinionated point of view... LOL. We agreed to disagree that the police are up to no good. My point of view is that if this was legit, the proof would have already come out. He seems to believe that they may be telling the truth when they say the video malfunctioned. We both agreed that in a moment of such stress, eye witnesses can get very confused about what they witnessed. I can see how someone would see this incident, then after speaking with others around them, start to change their view of what happened.

I have been in a couple situations where several different stories came out of folks who all stood side by side and watched something happen. Many moons ago I worked at DFW airport and was looking right at a passenger jet when it looked to me like it was hit by lightning and exploded. I was looking dead at it when it happened. There were at least a 100 different "eye witness" accounts of what happened, most where wrong. I would have sworn my life on my account of lightning hitting that plane. Turns out wind shear had pushed it down while landing and it hit 114 and hit the ground short of the run way.

Jim is right in that when something unexpected happens, it is easy for a person to see something that just straight out didn't happen.

This thread and a couple others on this forum have certainly made me more cautious about concealing than I have been in the past. The Round Rock thread being one of them. I find myself doing a double and triple check that I am not exposing my little secret. I have no desire to be the center of debates like this one. My plan is to die surrounded by grand children and great grand children in my hospice bed. I figure I got about 50 more years to go... getting gunned down by some rookie cop at 49 is not something I care to experience.

[mctowalot]

The Vegas news outlets are reporting that the inquest has been postponed while they do "additional investigation".

Side note: According to the purported transcript of the radio traffic, the dispatcher advises that the situation is "escalating", "he is talking loudly". If "talking loudly" is escalation just how heated was any conversation in the first place?

[Cobra Medic]

Is it illegal to make a false 911 call in Nevada?

[PeteCamp]

I think this is correct, but it could be in error. It is reported that the video surveillance system was one of the new top of the line systems by the same company that installs them in casinos. It uses a hard drive to record and they pulled the hard drive out and then could not read it because it was no longer attached to the main CPU and software. They sent it to an outfit in CA to see if they could find the video amongst all the directories on the hard drive.

[Terlingueno]

\
This thread and a couple others on this forum have certainly made me more cautious about concealing than I have been in the past. The Round Rock thread being one of them. I find myself doing a double and triple check that I am not exposing my little secret. I have no desire to be the center of debates like this one. My plan is to die surrounded by grand children and great grand children in my hospice bed. I figure I got about 50 more years to go... getting gunned down by some rookie cop at 49 is not something I care to experience.

Can you link to the Round Rock and the other threads please?

[mctowalot]

I think this is correct, but it could be in error. It is reported that the video surveillance system was one of the new top of the line systems by the same company that installs them in casinos. It uses a hard drive to record and they pulled the hard drive out and then could not read it because it was no longer attached to the main CPU and software. They sent it to an outfit in CA to see if they could find the video amongst all the directories on the hard drive.

This lends to the "sketchyness" of this whole escapade. Surely a Vegas detective whose responsibilities include obtaining surveillance video would be aware of the requirements to view it (IMHO)? If not the detective the Costco security people would know the correct procedure.

What's next? Are they going to claim they put the hard drive on the dashboard and the speaker magnet erased it?

[baldeagle]

I saw a couple news stories today that Erik's family has 7 billboards up (paid with donations) looking for witnesses. It's amazing with how many people were there how hard it is to get witnesses and there are no cell phone videos to it. The police continue to say "eyewitnesses or extremely fallible". There is also an inquest going on. It may be hard to ever get a real handle on this one.

Here's the link to the story.

In a surprising announcement Tuesday, the Clark County coroner’s office said it was postponing the inquest into the shooting death of a man by police outside a Summerlin Costco.

The inquest had been scheduled for Sept. 3 but has been delayed indefinitely, Coroner Mike Murphy told FOX5.

Clark County District Attorney David Roger said his office needs more time to go through all of the evidence, including a number of witness statements.

He also said that the coroner's inquest was originally scheduled for one day in September, but will probably need two days.

Note: this is not the whole article. To read that, follow the link.

[Excaliber]

I think this is correct, but it could be in error. It is reported that the video surveillance system was one of the new top of the line systems by the same company that installs them in casinos. It uses a hard drive to record and they pulled the hard drive out and then could not read it because it was no longer attached to the main CPU and software. They sent it to an outfit in CA to see if they could find the video amongst all the directories on the hard drive.

This is the situation I described as a likely issue in an earlier post.

If they had simply left the drive in the system, they would have been able to retrieve the video - assuming, of course, that was their objective.