Carrying around OPC (Other People's Children)?

[terryg]

To all of you experienced CHL holders out there, do you have any reservations about carrying while with your children's friends? I am a new CHL holder and don't have any problems carrying around my children. They know I have applied and received the licence and that I will be armed - in fact, my oldest daughter was my 'print' checker on my first official outing.

But what about situations carpooling where you have other children in your vehicle on the way to a game? Or lets say they spend the night and you take them all out for dinner or ice cream, etc.

I am sure that all of us CHL holders feel that any child is more safe when they are with us while carrying. But that is not necessarily going to be the opinion of the parents of any given child. If the roles were reversed and I was 'anti-gun' would I want my child out with someone who was packing? Even now, would I want them out with someone who's gun handling skills I am not completely familiar with?

Thoughts????

[garcia946]

I carry all the time around friends , family kids not problems. I`m just as careful with their kids as I`m with mine.

[bayouhazard]

If you have guests in your home, it's a very good idea to secure firearms that are not under your (or another responsible party's) control. Other than that, I don't see any concern.

[Dan20703]

I have no problem with carrying around anyone. The big difference is that I don't tell my children or their friends or their friend's parents about it. Kids might say something to brag or even without thinking who might be listening.

Best approach is to carry concealed and keep quiet about it. Nobody will ever make an issue of it.

[terryg]

Thank you for your responses.

I carry all the time around friends , family kids not problems. I`m just as careful with their kids as I`m with mine.

Of course, and as I said - most (if not all) of us would agree that any child is safer with us armed than unarmed. I guess part of my question is about parental sovereignty. Is there any moral or ethical concern in carrying around children whose parents are 'anti-gun'? Regardless of how we, as CHL equipped parents, feel - other parents may not see it the same way.

And then if we feel it is OK (perhaps even preferable) to carry while with non-family children, the other part of the question is seeking tips to prevent being discovered.

If you have guests in your home, it's a very good idea to secure firearms that are not under your (or another responsible party's) control.

Yes, of course. There is never a firearm that is not either on my person or locked away. I have only just gotten my CHL, but I have had secure weapons in the house since they were young children.

I have no problem with carrying around anyone. The big difference is that I don't tell my children or their friends or their friend's parents about it. Kids might say something to brag or even without thinking who might be listening.

Best approach is to carry concealed and keep quiet about it. Nobody will ever make an issue of it.

That's one thing I am concerned about, that my kids might accidentally brag or say something about it. But I don't know how you get away with them not knowing at all. In fact, that was one reason I made them aware of the process, so that when they notice the 'hard thing' on my hip, they don't wonder what it is. I also want to be able to stop them from rough-housing with me while I am carrying without a big explanation. Plus I also want them to be educated on guns and proper gun etiquette and control - so I don't want the fact that I carry to be secret within the family - but I do want it to be a secret outside of the family for obvious reasons.

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I guess I am also particularly concerned about the car as it seems that is one place you are perhaps more at risk of 'showing'. Not to mention the thought that I might have to disarm depending upon the final destination - like a school sporting event, for example. Or what about a traffic stop?

[garcia946]

Then education is key , I can only speak from what I do, my children know about guns I teach them the Dos and Don`t .
Everytime after I go to the range my kids come and sit down with me as I clean my guns and ask tons of questions.
Most if not all my friends and family know I Carry ( due to the fact I`m an Instructor ) but I judge it as a need to know basis.
All my handguns are safely stored where only me can and my wife can get to them.
My kids also knows not to talk about it with friends , since it`s our business not theirs.
Now thats just what I do , not all have the same outlook on it.

On the DPS website they have concerning traffic stops , as follows:
Traveling on Texas Roadways with Concealed Handguns
Traffic stop policies vary among law enforcement agencies. Your local police department or sheriff's office can tell you what to expect if stopped while carrying a handgun within their jurisdictions.

Texas Department of Public Safety troopers will ask you:

Whether you are licensed to carry a concealed handgun
Whether you have the gun with you
Where the gun is located
A trooper may disarm a licensee anytime he or she feels that safety is at risk. The trooper will return the gun at the end of the traffic stop when the threat to safety has passed.

When stopped by a law enforcement officer, DPS recommends that you:

Keep your hands in plain sight
Cooperate fully with the police officer
If you have a gun with you, tell the officer as soon as possible
Don't make any quick movements, especially toward the weapon
At night, turn on your vehicle's dome light

[mgood]

I agree that the best policy is to just carry and keep your mouth shut. Not any of their business. You are not threatening their children in any way and have no responsibility to declare that you're carrying a gun any more than you'd have a responsibility to tell them that there's a power saw in your garage with which the kids could get seriously injured. A gun is a tool, nothing more. It can be dangerous if used improperly, just like the saw. I think that the idea that other parents are trusting me to drive their kids around implies a certain amount of trust. They're in much greater danger from a motor vehicle accident than from anything involving firearms. (But I realize that a lot of people won't see it that way.)

BUT, what if:

So you're carrying concealed, taking your kid and his friends somewhere. They don't need to know. Concealed means concealed.

Then you're pulled over for a traffic stop. As required, you give the officer your DL and CHL. He asks if you are armed. The kids are hanging on every word of this conversation. Maybe he's one of the type of officers that feels a need to disarm you. You get a ticket or a warning, as the case may be, and he returns your weapon to you as he admonishes you to "slow down with those kids in the car". You re-holster and go about your business.

And when your kid's friends get home, the first thing out of their mouths is, "Mr. _____ got a ticket, and he had a GUN!"
Now what? I guess if some kid's parents are unhappy about that and will no longer allow their kid to go anywhere with us, oh well. I mean I'll try to make the point about firearm safety, background checks, the dangers of automobiles vs. guns, offer to take them to the range, whatever might work. But in the end, if they don't want their kid around guns, or are just too indignant that I had a gun around their kids without prior notification, too bad.

The only other choices I see are:
1) Go around announcing to every parent of every friend of your kids who might be with you at some point, that you're armed.
With the low-profile mentality around here, I don't see too many people doing that.
2) Exclude yourself from any activity that may involve the neighbor kids.
You want to have a life and enjoy time with your kids, and that is sometimes going to include their friends, so I don't see this either.
3) Disarm whenever anyone else's kid may be with you.
What's the point of carrying once in a while when you know that the time you need it will be the time you don't have it?

[Charles L. Cotton]

I work with our student ministry at First Baptist Church - Friendswood so I'm carrying around a lot of kids. I can't say that every parent knows I'm carrying, but unless they are brand new to our church, I can't imagine there is one that doesn't know. I've never had a single one complain, even from people who I know are afraid of guns. On the other hand, I've had a lot of parents tell me they're glad I'm there and some are especially grateful when we go on field trips.

Our "small group" program meets in the homes of people who volunteer their homes for our meetings. I carry in all of them also. Again, everyone knows it because it's common knowledge that "if you see Cotton, he's carrying." I don't talk about it; I don't ask permission, I just wear my gun like my watch -- I never think about it.

If someone were to tell me they didn't want me carrying my gun when their kid was with me, then I'm afraid I'd just have to invite them to take their kid to the movies while the rest of us did something else. It's certainly the parents' right, but I won't disarm and leave myself and the kids parents expect me to protect defenseless.

Chas.

[WildBill]

I just read the posts and there is a lot of good information here. At first I hesitated to read the thread because I usually don't carry other people's children around.

[mgood]

. . . I usually don't carry other people's children around.

Yeah, I think it's best to wait until they can walk.

[terryg]

I just read the posts and there is a lot of good information here. At first I hesitated to read the thread because I usually don't carry other people's children around.

That was funny!

[terryg]

And when your kid's friends get home, the first thing out of their mouths is, "Mr. _____ got a ticket, and he had a GUN!"

That's exactly what would happen! Especially if they grew up in an "anti-gun" home.

The only other choices I see are:
1) Go around announcing to every parent of every friend of your kids who might be with you at some point, that you're armed.
With the low-profile mentality around here, I don't see too many people doing that.
2) Exclude yourself from any activity that may involve the neighbor kids.
You want to have a life and enjoy time with your kids, and that is sometimes going to include their friends, so I don't see this either.
3) Disarm whenever anyone else's kid may be with you.
What's the point of carrying once in a while when you know that the time you need it will be the time you don't have it?

Thanks for laying it out like that - it makes a lot of sense. And I guess other than a traffic stop, you just work really hard to stay concealed. If you have to disarm before exiting the vehicle, you just send them on ahead or get out and 'pretend' to forget something in the car ...

[Hoi Polloi]

I know of an anti-gun family finding out that a CHL mom was carrying when around their kids and it wasn't pretty. I think what you do to lesson their concerns depends on how much you value the relationship. Definitely make it clear to your kids that it isn't a topic that we discuss with others. I have a huge issue with asking kids to keep a "secret" so I explain the difference between privacy and secrecy and I tell them that this is a private matter when something like that comes up. I then use the opportunity to go over what they should do if an adult ever asks them to keep a secret.

However, I also have some issues with my kids being around gun owners who aren't as careful as I think they should be. I am particularly concerned about guns that are in purses that are left unattended, inside car holsters that aren't locked, in the master bedroom nightstand drawer when kids are in and out of the bedroom, or other easily accessible places. I teach them gun safety, but it seems like an inordinate risk to take and I do limit their activities around those I don't think are careful enough with guns when children are around.

[terryg]

I work with our student ministry at First Baptist Church - Friendswood so I'm carrying around a lot of kids. I can't say that every parent knows I'm carrying, but unless they are brand new to our church, I can't imagine there is one that doesn't know. I've never had a single one complain, even from people who I know are afraid of guns. On the other hand, I've had a lot of parents tell me they're glad I'm there and some are especially grateful when we go on field trips.

Our "small group" program meets in the homes of people who volunteer their homes for our meetings. I carry in all of them also. Again, everyone knows it because it's common knowledge that "if you see Cotton, he's carrying." I don't talk about it; I don't ask permission, I just wear my gun like my watch -- I never think about it.

If someone were to tell me they didn't want me carrying my gun when their kid was with me, then I'm afraid I'd just have to invite them to take their kid to the movies while the rest of us did something else. It's certainly the parents' right, but I won't disarm and leave myself and the kids parents expect me to protect defenseless.

Chas.

Thank you for sharing those experiences Mr. Cotton. That helps. Going into a private home for a small group is another scenario that I makes me a little uncomfortable - its good to hear. Of course, there are usually lots of hugs in a small group setting so it seems someone who may not otherwise know will eventually discover it.

[SwimFan85]

If you're worried about being "outed" during a traffic stop, the easy fix is to obey the traffic laws.