CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[baldeagle]

This story really bothers me.

"The event immediately spiraled out of control, but not from the perspective of Erik who, from what his girlfriend said, was like absolutely stunned -- shocked that police were there. 'Why are police here? What's going on in the store?' Suddenly the police are firing," said family friend William Birnes.

The 38-year-old medical salesman had been inside Costco shopping with his girlfriend, when Metro says it received numerous 911 calls for his erratic behavior and reporting he was carrying a gun. This prompted the store to evacuate employees and customers.

If Scott was surprised that police were there, then he could not have realized that he was the object of their visit. Also, if there were "numerous" 911 calls, that would mean that more than two or three people noticed that he had a gun. How could he be blissfully unaware of this? The behavior his girlfriend describes is the complete opposite of the claims the media cites the Costco employees making. Someone has to be lying; either the media or the Costco folks or the girlfriend.

[Hoi Polloi]

Also, if there were "numerous" 911 calls, that would mean that more than two or three people noticed that he had a gun. How could he be blissfully unaware of this?

Or one person noted it, told an employee, both called, hung up after talking to them, and then a manager called.

[Beiruty]

The great question why in the world the responding LEOs (couple are rookies) had to make contact with drawn pistols?
No one reported a shooting or a threat of deadly force( i.e. Scott the CHLer never draw his pistol while in Costco.
I have a deep feeling who ever made the 911 call have second thoughts and full of remorse if not shame and guilt.

[Mike1951]

With the proliferation of camera/video phones, it will be unusual, and a shame, if no video surfaces.

A private video could keep the surveillance video 'honest'.

[Liberty]

One thing is certain; I'll never step foot in Nevada again, unless it is business related and absolutely necessary.

Chas.

Charles, I couldn't agree with you more. If I hadn't booked a trip for my anniversary for my wife and I to Vegas in August with non-refundable tickets, I'd be cancelling. This will certainly be my last trip to NV unless I have no choice but to go.

I don't see this as endemic to Las Vegas or Nevada.
Rather it does expose the possibility (that the Sumerland has incompetant lying officers). Sumerland is not Las Vegas nor is it the entirety of Nevada. While avoiding Nevada because they don't have reciprocity is reasonable. Boycotting them them because of this incident seems to be a reach.
Then again I stopped a bi-annual weekend trip to San Antonio because of their anti-Gun Chamber of Commerce. I will won't even get gas there when driving through.

To condemn them for this would be equivalent to condemning Houston or the whole state of Texas, for poor police work in the Woodlands.

Although Nevada doesn't recognize our Texas CHL, They are more gun friendly than a lot of states,

[Justin Franklin]

For those who are interested, there is a YouTube video from one of the local new programs. I didn't hear anything new on the video, I'm just sharing it with everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDwnq5bt5Jk

[Justin Franklin]

Thank you to the Mod who removed that last comment from ********. Please ban that person!!!

[seniorshooteress]

I watched the video and the LEO spokesperson said there was a gun on the ground and another in his waistband. It is not unlikely after the shooting when the cops said "oops" that one of them could have put their thrown down weapon on the ground. Wonder if they will take any fingerprints off that weapon or do any other kind of investigation into who actually owned the gun that was 'supposedly" on the ground. They could have put his hand on it after the fact but a serial number trace should tell who owned the gun. Unless this guy had a really intense mental breakdown inside this store, from what I am reading/hearing about this guy, it is very much out of character for him to have reacted in the way the LEO discribe. I doubt we will ever get the real truth, sure would like to know what really happened.

[Oldgringo]

seniorshooteress wrote:

...but a serial number trace should tell who owned the gun...

You reckon?

[Keith B]

I watched the video and the LEO spokesperson said there was a gun on the ground and another in his waistband. It is not unlikely after the shooting when the cops said "oops" that one of them could have put their thrown down weapon on the ground. Wonder if they will take any fingerprints off that weapon or do any other kind of investigation into who actually owned the gun that was 'supposedly" on the ground. They could have put his hand on it after the fact but a serial number trace should tell who owned the gun. Unless this guy had a really intense mental breakdown inside this store, from what I am reading/hearing about this guy, it is very much out of character for him to have reacted in the way the LEO discribe. I doubt we will ever get the real truth, sure would like to know what really happened.

Throw-down weapons and placing someones hand on a gun to get their prints on it is television and movie hype. There were way too many whitenesses around for anything like that to have transpired anyway.

I really believe this is the forging of a severe error chain. We had a person who was possibly agitated at the store employees and management about being confronted for his taking items out of packages, his gun being seen and people and store personnel making Man With a Gun calls to 911, officers responding to a MWG call, the store being evacuated and patrons not realizing what the issue was or panicking if they had seen the gun(s), officers improperly moving the individual into public vs isolating him, maybe the individual misinterpreting the officers commands due to a lot of noise or multiple officers issuing commands and not being able to discern them and reaching for or drawing one of his guns (lots of people carry more than one), ad infinitum.

Bottom line, there were multiple serious mistakes made by lots of folks, and had any one of them not happened, then the guy would probably be alive and the issue could have been sorted out and we would never be hearing about it.

[Justin Franklin]

I watched the video and the LEO spokesperson said there was a gun on the ground and another in his waistband. It is not unlikely after the shooting when the cops said "oops" that one of them could have put their thrown down weapon on the ground. Wonder if they will take any fingerprints off that weapon or do any other kind of investigation into who actually owned the gun that was 'supposedly" on the ground. They could have put his hand on it after the fact but a serial number trace should tell who owned the gun. Unless this guy had a really intense mental breakdown inside this store, from what I am reading/hearing about this guy, it is very much out of character for him to have reacted in the way the LEO discribe. I doubt we will ever get the real truth, sure would like to know what really happened.

Throw-down weapons and placing someones hand on a gun to get their prints on it is television and movie hype. There were way too many whitenesses around for anything like that to have transpired anyway.

I really believe this is the forging of a severe error chain. We had a person who was possibly agitated at the store employees and management about being confronted for his taking items out of packages, his gun being seen and people and store personnel making Man With a Gun calls to 911, officers responding to a MWG call, the store being evacuated and patrons not realizing what the issue was or panicking if they had seen the gun(s), officers improperly moving the individual into public vs isolating him, maybe the individual misinterpreting the officers commands due to a lot of noise or multiple officers issuing commands and not being able to discern them and reaching for or drawing one of his guns (lots of people carry more than one), ad infinitum.

Bottom line, there were multiple serious mistakes made by lots of folks, and had any one of them not happened, then the guy would probably be alive and the issue could have been sorted out and we would never be hearing about it.

I very seriously doubt the "throw down weapon" theory. The fact that a second gun was found on his person does not say much. I have at times carried my pocket .380 while also carrying my .40 on my waistband. If you lose one gun for whatever reason (malfunction, bad guy takes it, etc), then you have a backup. I do my best to avoid possibilities of a gun fight, but I would certainly want back up just in case.

I too believe this was just a whole chain of events that were headed in the wrong direction. Things could have been stopped at different points, but decisions were made and now we must learn from this. Hopefully the real story will come out in due time.

[WildBill]

A very good interview with Erik Scott's father: http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12809131" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[davidtx]

A very good interview with Erik Scott's father: http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12809131" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Erik Scott was a West Point graduate who also had a degree from Duke. He was a successful businessman and his father is a nationally known aviation journalist with extensive contacts in military and intelligence circles.

It's going to be interesting to watch this unfold.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I sure hope nothing "happened" to the video, but his comment sure makes me worry.

Chas.

[seniorshooteress]

I am a firm believer that MOST LEO are good decent people and that sometimes stuff happens that causes them to react in a way they wouldn't normally act. I respect LEO but in this instance I feel something went terribly wrong and one of these officers involved in this decided to make this terrible accident, justified. So only in movies or on TV do some police try to cover up their mistakes? To protect a career/pension/reputation, stay out of jail or some other reason.. There was utter chaos so who was going to notice if a gun were thrown on the ground. I know most CHL's have BUG's but which do you present 1st? The one in your waistband or your BUG? This man had a gun STILL in his waistband. So maybe he had a double holster rig with 2 guns on his hip? I, too, am very interested to see if videos will be available and wondering if anyone in the crowd videoed it with cell phone or something. (The purse snatching at WalMart was online for all to see a day after the incident and it was from the stores survalence camera) If so, they may be scared to let anyone know they have it depending on what it depects as the actual happening. Normally things like this make it to YouTube before it makes it to the media. We all have our opinions and this is mine.