Embalmo wrote:It's a coin toss, and I'm about to scrap the whole idea of declaring. If I don't declare, I sit in my car while the stop goes quickly and smoothly. If I do declare, I might be pulled out of my car, pushed against my car, frisked, and detained for an hour while the moron grapples procedure. And then your gun might be placed in your trunk to bounce around with your jack and spare while you drive home. The only time in my entire life that I've ever been removed from my car, frisked and detained for an hour was when I was foolish enough to declare.
Embalmo
The law still states you must declare if you are carrying. Period.
Did the "L" word appear anywhere in this post? Funny thing about CHL laws is that CHLs seem to be the only ones who understand/know current CHL laws. After the incident with the women in the hospital and the treatment that I received, I don't trust LEOs to know what the current laws are concerning CHL. Certainly, I wouldn't take a chance as the cop would know ahead of time, but it was a lot simpler when I carried in my vehicle before I had a CHL. I believed, like we were all told in CHL class, that declaring would put the LEO at ease, but it often has the opposite effect.
Embalmo
It seems to me that the whole point of getting a CHL is so that we can legally carry concealed. So why go to the trouble to get "legal" and then ignore/violate the laws that grant us that privilege?
Embalmo wrote:It's a coin toss, and I'm about to scrap the whole idea of declaring. If I don't declare, I sit in my car while the stop goes quickly and smoothly. If I do declare, I might be pulled out of my car, pushed against my car, frisked, and detained for an hour while the moron grapples procedure. And then your gun might be placed in your trunk to bounce around with your jack and spare while you drive home. The only time in my entire life that I've ever been removed from my car, frisked and detained for an hour was when I was foolish enough to declare.
Embalmo
The law still states you must declare if you are carrying. Period.
Did the "L" word appear anywhere in this post? Funny thing about CHL laws is that CHLs seem to be the only ones who understand/know current CHL laws. After the incident with the women in the hospital and the treatment that I received, I don't trust LEOs to know what the current laws are concerning CHL. Certainly, I wouldn't take a chance as the cop would know ahead of time, but it was a lot simpler when I carried in my vehicle before I had a CHL. I believed, like we were all told in CHL class, that declaring would put the LEO at ease, but it often has the opposite effect.
Embalmo
I think you will find much more the opposite; that many LEO's have the understanding that you must present your CHL at ALL times. There are several stories of LEO's who have chastised the CHL, even when not carrying, for not presenting his ID when he the drivers license to them. Now, even though the penalties for not presenting changed, you still run the risk of being reprimanded or even arrested for not presenting while carrying because the LEO is not current on the statutes.
And, while you apparently got a bad taste from your one poor encounter, do not paste all LEO's into that mold. Many DO know the law, and many are pro-CHL. Besides, it is against forum rules to LEO bash.
I did not generalize, nor did I bash LEOs. The individual that I encountered was indeed a moron, but I certainly did not say, "This moron, like all LEOs..." As you said, "Many DO know the law," but I'd feel more comfortable if ALL knew the law. Bottom line: I don't trust that enough information is being given to LEOs concerning CHLs to keep us safe from persecution.
Embalmo wrote:It's a coin toss, and I'm about to scrap the whole idea of declaring. If I don't declare, I sit in my car while the stop goes quickly and smoothly. If I do declare, I might be pulled out of my car, pushed against my car, frisked, and detained for an hour while the moron grapples procedure. And then your gun might be placed in your trunk to bounce around with your jack and spare while you drive home. The only time in my entire life that I've ever been removed from my car, frisked and detained for an hour was when I was foolish enough to declare.
Embalmo
The law still states you must declare if you are carrying. Period.
Did the "L" word appear anywhere in this post? Funny thing about CHL laws is that CHLs seem to be the only ones who understand/know current CHL laws. After the incident with the women in the hospital and the treatment that I received, I don't trust LEOs to know what the current laws are concerning CHL. Certainly, I wouldn't take a chance as the cop would know ahead of time, but it was a lot simpler when I carried in my vehicle before I had a CHL. I believed, like we were all told in CHL class, that declaring would put the LEO at ease, but it often has the opposite effect.
Embalmo
It seems to me that the whole point of getting a CHL is so that we can legally carry concealed. So why go to the trouble to get "legal" and then ignore/violate the laws that grant us that privilege?
I agree, but who woulda' thought that declaring would cause some LEOs to panic? Perhaps it's rare, but it certainly frightened me enough to almost not declare the next time I got pulled over.
RM9792, Sorry, but you are wrong, dead wrong. I spent 15 years on the streets, If an officer is told things up front, he is less suspicious, if he has to find out on his own, then the "what else is he/she hiding from me? kicks in, and it can go south from there. It is always best to be up front, lay your cards on the table. You have nothing to lose in doing so.
Will he still have his guard up? Yes, an officer should not let his guard down because someone has a CHL. Even Jeffery Dahmer was an ideal citizen until one day someone discovered body parts in his freezer.
I say declare, I always have, always will. It makes life easier on everyone. Why would someone not declare? There is not a legitimate reason not to.
I always declare and show my chl. I simply stand by that it is an empty gesture. You still havent explained why a CHL must declare and it is "safer" when an MPA carrier doesn't. MPA is even advised not to as it might be construed as a threat. I have never been LEO but I live in a small town and have closely associated with LEO here since I was 6 years old. Family has worked in the dept here for 25 years. I know how they think and have actually attended a lot of their training sessions (I get to be a BG sometimes). I will defer to active officers such as yourself and Rothstein but will never see the purpose of declaring. Officers should assume everyone is armed and stay alert.
I was "pulled" over several months ago while doing 11 over the limit. As the officer walked up I had both hands resting on the dash board through the steering wheel. I advised him I had a CHL and was carrying IWB on my right hip. He said leave it where it was and asked for my TDL, insurance and CHL. He came back with the licenses and a warning. He simply asked me to slow down. There are people in every line of work who should be doing something different and LEOs are no different. They went in the line of work for....glamour, money, schedule,....fill in the blank. The only thing I have control of is my reaction, not theirs. So, speaking for myself only, I will offer the information.
Blind dumb luck beats skill and cunning two out of three times.
If you get stopped and you don't present your CHL along with your DL, the officer is going to know you have a CHL as soon as he runs your license anyway. The next thing he or she is going to do is wonder why you didn't tell him you have a CHL. Then he's going to wonder if you're armed. Both of these things will raise his alert level and make him much more cautious, perhaps even edgy.
Why would you want to do that to him? And to yourself? As a CHL holder our obligation is to try to lower tension whenever possible, not raise it.
It's the law. Yes, there is no penalty for not doing it, but it's the right thing to do. Declare.
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
NRA Life Member Texas Firearms Coalition member
baldeagle wrote:If you get stopped and you don't present your CHL along with your DL, the officer is going to know you have a CHL as soon as he runs your license anyway. The next thing he or she is going to do is wonder why you didn't tell him you have a CHL. Then he's going to wonder if you're armed. Both of these things will raise his alert level and make him much more cautious, perhaps even edgy.
Why would you want to do that to him? And to yourself? As a CHL holder our obligation is to try to lower tension whenever possible, not raise it.
It's the law. Yes, there is no penalty for not doing it, but it's the right thing to do. Declare.
