OH: Alcohol establishment carry in the works

[Dutchster]

For those of you that have occasion to travel to Ohio, you may be glad to know that our state has started down the long road to allowing CHLs to carry in alcohol establishments. Ohioans for Concealed Carry has been working with a legislator to draft legislation that would permit CHLs to carry in a retail food establishment or food service operation that has any type of liquor license provided the CHL is not drinking and is not under the influence. The terms retail food establishment and food service operation have very specific meaning under Ohio law, and the effect would essentially be that carry would be permitted in any place that derives less than 100% of their revenue from on-premises alcohol consumption. Under the law, a place that buys pretzels and peanuts to serve to customers at the bar is considered a retail food establishment. You can read the full draft here.

Now before everyone runs and gets excited, I truly mean it when I say this is a very long road. Supposedly the feeling is that there is enough political momentum to make this happen which is why it was drafted. Nevertheless, here are some things that have to happen from here.
1. Co-sponsors have to be lined up and the bill has to be introduced.
2. The bill has to be assigned to a committee for evaluation. The committee that is most likely to hear it is now chaired by an anti-CCW guy.
3. The bill has to pass the House. The new speaker of the house is a (D) from the liberal east side of Cleveland. He's spoken against CCW before.
4. The bill has to pass the Senate. The Senate contains a good number of pro-CCW people.
5. The bill has to be signed by our governor, also a (D). However, he has expressed support for 'reasonable CCW' rules in the past, and in fact, signed our most recent bill that removed some prohibited places and created the castle doctrine.
*. At any point before step 5, the bill is subject to amendments. Even if it does pass, there's plenty of opportunity for the antis to slip provisions in that would water the bill down. They might figure out that retail food establishment is extremely broad and demand that we cut it down to a place that makes no more than X% or whatever. Or the House committee chair might refuse to give the bill a hearing, effectively killing it. Anything is possible, but those of us up here are going to be fighting to keep the bill as is but more importantly, keep it moving.

Our General Assembly terms run for two years. That means this bill could be introduced tomorrow and not get its first hearing in the House until December 2010.

[kd5zex]

Glad to hear your state is adopting reasonable CHL laws. Unfortunately, we do not currently have reciprocity with Ohio http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... rocity.htm.

[Dutchster]

Slowly but surely progress is being made. Ohio House Bill 203 has been introduced with 18 sponsors and cosponsors. It has not even been assigned to a committee yet.

[Dutchster]

Following up on my own post, by a vote of 23-10 yesterday the Ohio Senate passed SB 239 which would allow licensed carry in any bar, restaurant, or open air arena with a liquor license so long as the licensee is not drinking.

This bill also significantly improves the car carry provision for licensees. Essentially if you have your CHL you will be able to have your handgun anywhere in the car. For those who don't know, we currently have all sorts of stipulations on where it can be and how it must be secured. In fact if your gun is digging into your back and you reach back to shift it over while on a public highway you're committing a felony That'll all go away. As on legislator pointed out, our rules for car carry are currently longer than the Declaration of Independence.

The Democratic governor has said that he favors the bill despite lots of LEO opposition.

So that's the good news. The bad news is that it now proceeds to the House where HB203 (slightly different) has been sitting in committee. The House Speaker is a pretty rabid-anti gun east side of Clevelander who will probably try to let both bills die at the end of the session. Since the governor is in favor of it, we're hoping that he exerts some pressure on the speaker to bring the bill to a vote. The governor is also up for reelection this year and his numbers aren't too great - I'm sure he'd love to have the vote of gun owners on his side so we're hopeful that he'll make something happen behind the scenes even if that means bringing the bill to a vote after the elections.

More updates as they happen!

[LarryH]

Thank you for the update.

[joe817]

Yes Dutchster, thanks for the update! Please keep us posted.

[sooeey2u]

Following up on my own post, by a vote of 23-10 yesterday the Ohio Senate passed SB 239 which would allow licensed carry in any bar, restaurant, or open air arena with a liquor license so long as the licensee is not drinking.

They tried that here in Oregon but it still stands that you may drink in a bar and OC without a CHL or OC or CC with a CHL as long as you are not legally intoxicated.

Personally if I have had 2 beers and plan to continue consumption, I lock my gun up in the truck.

[KFP]

I'll keep my fingers crossed! This severely limits my ability to carry while visiting family in Ohio.

I've been following this through an Ohio forum for a little while. Not surprisingly, those rallying against it have a lot of speculation and zero facts to back up their claims that, "people will start shooting each other." I'd like to see a lawmaker ask the exact same question to each person testifying, both for and against the legislation, "What statistics do you have to support your position?"

Suzanna Gratia Hupp was one of those brought in to testify in support of the bill.

[Oldgringo]

Personally if I have had 2 beers and plan to continue consumption, I lock my gun up in the truck.

That sounds like a plan to me.

I don't understand why some are so anxious to carry their CW's in honky-tonks, bars and gentlemen's clubs, etc. What am I missing?

[sooeey2u]

I don't understand why some are so anxious to carry their CW's in honky-tonks, bars and gentlemen's clubs, etc. What am I missing?

You're not missing a thing. It's just that I don't want to be missing my gun if I need it. I carry 24/7, well 99% of the time (I do shower & sleep ) because I'm not psychic and do not know when I may need my weapon.

I don't carry at a bar after I down my personal limit of 2 beers, nor do I drive my p/u or motorcycle after such. Many times I volunteer as the designated driver at such partys and continue to carry all night.

Everyone has their own rules. I like Mr. Cotton's language of consideration of what's moral, not just legal....something like that. Help me out with what he said exactly.....having a senior moment.

[Oldgringo]

I don't understand why some are so anxious to carry their CW's in honky-tonks, bars and gentlemen's clubs, etc. What am I missing?

...I don't carry at a bar after I down my personal limit of 2 beers, nor do I drive my p/u or motorcycle after such....

So, you don't need your CW after two beers but you might need it between no beers and two?

We really enjoyed our RV trip up the Oregon coast and then east up the Columbia River last summer. The scenery was beautiful.

[AlanM]

Personally if I have had 2 beers and plan to continue consumption, I lock my gun up in the truck.

That sounds like a plan to me.

I don't understand why some are so anxious to carry their CW's in honky-tonks, bars and gentlemen's clubs, etc. What am I missing?

None of the bills that have been introduced in the Ohio legislature have made a distinction between that type of business and places that get their income primarily from the sale of food.
This was done to provide a clean law with no wiggle room like what caused the previous Tennessee law to be shot down by their state supreme court.
I have to confess that I don't know Texas law on this point, but I assume that your law is of the 51% type. That is, carry is allowed in places whose sales is from predominately food and not liquor.


Nearly every Pizza Hut in Ohio has a liquor permit, usually just for beer and wine, for take out and in-house consumption. Currently, our law prevents us from carrying in any room where liquor is being sold and consumed. Even though I don't drink, I'd like to be able to protect myself while I travel to and from my car.

Being in possession of a firearm while intoxicated has been illegal in Ohio for nearly forever.

[davidtx]

I don't understand why some are so anxious to carry their CW's in honky-tonks, bars and gentlemen's clubs, etc. What am I missing?

Some of us go in bars and don't drink. I have a monthly meetup with friends at the Dog and Duck Pub in downtown Austin. I have to leave my gun in the car or leave it at home. I really, really don't like leaving my gun in the car.

Also, what's wrong with being the designated defender?

[Keith B]

I have to confess that I don't know Texas law on this point, but I assume that your law is of the 51% type. That is, carry is allowed in places whose sales is from predominately food and not liquor.

Texas is a 51% state. Texas establishments must post one of two signs per the TABC rules; either a 51% sign that shows they are a more than 51% revenue from alcohol Establishment, or a blue 'unlicensed carry' sign that shows they are a less than 51% establishment. Sign examples are here:

Until last legislative session the law was you were guilty of carrying if you went in a 51% establishment even if they had not properly posted a 51% sign, but that changed to getting a defense to prosecution if the sign is not posted. You can still be arrested, but the defense is there.

The only problem now is getting Establishments to post the correct signs (some post a 51% sign when they shouldn't) and getting them to post them at the entrance where they are clearly visible.

Good luck on your legislation getting passed. That is a big win for any state that prohibits carry in restaurants, like Tennessee and Ohio.

[chamberc]

And here's to hoping that Texas and Ohio have reciprocity someday...