Disarm in Public School Parking Lot, Firearm left in the car

[HighHandicap]

You guys decide - here is a snippet from 18 USC 922:

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess
a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or
foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable
cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm--
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political
subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political
subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a
license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political
subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to
receive the license;
(iii) that is--
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that
is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.

Also Local and state LEOs aren't going to enforce this as they have no jurisdiction on federal charges.

Oops! I just went crosseyed! I have no idea what that law states, but I'll probably put my pistol in a lock box in the car, lock the car, and arm the alarm, and not worry about it.

[tiger1873]

This law has lots of exceptions if you look closely. I wonder if there has been a case anywhere brought by a person who just locked a gun in the car under it. I would think a good lawyer could get you off fairly easy.

Just keep it in the car and you will fine. To me it looks more like a tool a prosecutor can use to enhance a crime that took place on school grounds.

If you a teacher you going to have figure out if your job is worth it or not. I for one would object to a employer searching my car. I am sure a district that does that also looks at everything you do online as well. It that is the case perhaps you should find a employer who doesn't think they own you.

You guys decide - here is a snippet from 18 USC 922:

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess
a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or
foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable
cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm--
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political
subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political
subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a
license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political
subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to
receive the license;
(iii) that is--
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that
is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.

Also Local and state LEOs aren't going to enforce this as they have no jurisdiction on federal charges.

[03Lightningrocks]

Again.... we are all fixating on what would be comparable to getting struck by lightning while cashing in your winning 10 billion dollar lotto ticket. This kind of stuff is paranoid.... I don't really care if anyone likes my opinion or not. It is the same one I would give you face to face. Ask the fellers in here that know me if you think I am kidding. Worrying about a gun sniffing dog finding your handgun under the seat of your car while you are picking up Jr is just silly.... IMHO.

The part of the story you may not be getting is I bet dollars to donuts this kid was under scrutiny anyway. The cops were probably intentionally trying to find something on him in particular. No way in heck were they just randomly walking a dog around in case a gun was in a random car somewhere. I will never believe that garbage.

Some folks would be better off not carrying if it really makes you this nervous to exercise your right to KABA. yes..... it looks as if you could go to jail if by some random chance a gun sniffing dog happened by your car while you were in the school... IF YOU DON"T HAVE A CHL.... which most in here do. Then of coarse the cop would have to be a major jerk to arrest some mom or dad who were simply picking up their child from school... which most won't... unless your some kind of smart Aleck who runs off at them.

Anyway.... relax folks... it is just a gun. it is not some kind of radio active isotope.

[ELB]

When the chance of something bad happening is very small, but the consequence is severe, then the overall risk is still significant. That's why it makes still makes sense for people with conservative lifestyles -- that is who don't do stupid things in stupid places at stupid times of day with stupid people -- to carry concealed handguns.

The original poster's question was, "is there a significant consequence?" Legitimate question. When you know the answer, you can make a rational decision about whether you want to go ahead and carry (or stash your gun in the car, whatever) anyway.

WRT to the highschool kid who got caught -- the point was the security guard(s) attributed the discovery of his firearms to a dog. I think they may be lying -- some comments about the case noted that his hunting kills may have been in the bed of the truck. But in any case, the example is you don't have to be doing something else illegal for authorities to discover a firearm in your vehicle.

Even if he was targeted for other reasons, the point remains that the kid was not charged with breaking any laws (and never mind "intent" I doubt he broke any at all), and he did not break any school policy, but the hoplophobic reaction of the school administration caused them to wrongfully try to extend their power beyond school grounds. And even though the kid in the end "won," it still was a severe consequence for him.

Imagine a school teacher with a CHL who was a member of the NRA/TSRA, posted at TexasCHLforum, etc, wondered what would happen if this any of this became known to his anti-gun administraton? Would his car suddenly be targeted by a "dog" for a search? If so, are there consequences beyond getting canned? Would he be in violation of the GFSZA and actually face criminal charges? He might be willing to risk getting fired but not risk getting a record and prison time. And he might not post all his details on a forum. (BTW, I know nothing of the original poster's identity).

As for local cops not enforcing GFSZA violations -- they may not "enforce" but at least some of them pass on the info -- somehow the feds find out about these violations. Tait of US vs Tait had an altercation at a school (almost certainly a "local" matter) but he got prosecuted for violating GFSZA. Of course, the trial court and the appellate court both found him not guilty, and it only cost him lawyer's fees for a trial and and defending an appeal and probably a year or two of uncertainty about his fate, so no harm no foul, right? Why worry about these things?

So perhaps it is not unwise to park your ego for a minute and consider which overall risks are greater, persecution by the state or by violent criminals, and act accordingly.

[sjfcontrol]

Tait of US vs Tait had an altercation at a school (almost certainly a "local" matter) but he got prosecuted for violating GFSZA. Of course, the trial court and the appellate court both found him not guilty, and it only cost him lawyer's fees for a trial and and defending an appeal and probably a year or two of uncertainty about his fate, so no harm no foul, right? Why worry about these things?

Why would there have been an appeal, if he was found not guilty at the first trial?

[Keith B]

Tait of US vs Tait had an altercation at a school (almost certainly a "local" matter) but he got prosecuted for violating GFSZA. Of course, the trial court and the appellate court both found him not guilty, and it only cost him lawyer's fees for a trial and and defending an appeal and probably a year or two of uncertainty about his fate, so no harm no foul, right? Why worry about these things?

Why would there have been an appeal, if he was found not guilty at the first trial?

The other side appealed his not guilty verdict.

[sjfcontrol]

Tait of US vs Tait had an altercation at a school (almost certainly a "local" matter) but he got prosecuted for violating GFSZA. Of course, the trial court and the appellate court both found him not guilty, and it only cost him lawyer's fees for a trial and and defending an appeal and probably a year or two of uncertainty about his fate, so no harm no foul, right? Why worry about these things?

Why would there have been an appeal, if he was found not guilty at the first trial?

The other side appealed his not guilty verdict.

It appears the lower court agreed with Tait's claim of "exceptions" that made the gun possession legal, and dismissed the case. The feds appealed that. He was NOT found not guilty by the lower court, or double jeopardy would have attached and the Feds could not appeal. (IANAL -- but I've watched a lot of people play them on TV.)

[threoh8]

Again.... we are all fixating on what would be comparable to getting struck by lightning while cashing in your winning 10 billion dollar lotto ticket.

While having your car sniffed seems unlikely, having your car involved in a fender-bender or other incident while passing through a school zone is not unlikely at all. And, in the aftermath, the presence of firearms could well come to the attention of someone who cares.

[03Lightningrocks]

So perhaps it is not unwise to park your ego for a minute and consider which overall risks are greater, persecution by the state or by violent criminals, and act accordingly.

You were on quite the roll right up until you said this. Which inspires me to ask... what in the name of our holy jesus does ego have to do with any of this?????

[03Lightningrocks]

Again.... we are all fixating on what would be comparable to getting struck by lightning while cashing in your winning 10 billion dollar lotto ticket.

While having your car sniffed seems unlikely, having your car involved in a fender-bender or other incident while passing through a school zone is not unlikely at all. And, in the aftermath, the presence of firearms could well come to the attention of someone who cares.

Wow..... and lightning could strike me while I am sitting in my living room responding to paranoid rantings on the internet. Seriously guys.... you don't have to feel guilty about owning a firearm. maybe it was instilled in you as a youngster but really.... it is OK. it doesn't make us anything special. lots of guys carry guns.... lots of guys with no CHL. You could get caught speeding on the freeway too, but yet everyone still does it and very few get caught. Some of this stuff is just out there. I feel like I need to get my aluminum hat out. A cop isn't even going to show up if you have a non injury accident.... unless it is to tell you to get your silly tail end out of the flow of traffic with your fender bender.

[03Lightningrocks]

OK.... I figured this out for you. Just stop off just outside the school property and hide your gun under a bush. Pick it up on your way back out again. Be sure and put a sign beside it that says...... Please don't take my gun if you find it. i really want to keep it but I am scared the dog with the x-ray vision and super sense of smell is going to pick up on my Hoppes cleaner. I have an idea.... carry a small bottle of Hoppes with you and squirt it here and there around someone elses car. that will throw off the gun sniffing dog. then all you need to worry about is the cop with the x-ray vision.